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Hillary Picks Tim Kaine as Running Mate

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2016
Posted on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 08:22:51 PM EST
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Hillary Clinton has picked Tim Kaine as her running mate. What a dull, uninspiring, lackluster choice. He seems as exciting as Mike Pence. But, it really didn't matter who she picked. No one will honestly claim they have decided to vote for Trump because she picked Kaine instead of someone else.

Still, it's disappointing Hillary went the so called safe route instead of adding a refreshing newcomer or a minority to the ticket. I wonder if she would have chosen Kaine if Trump hadn't chosen Pence. If not, then her choice is reactive and responsive. I'd rather she grabbed the initiative and made bold choices.

Since Trump will have made himself unacceptable to everyone but the most angry, marginalized and under-informed voters, and his own children, I'm still confident she'll win in November. But I'm not buying she's "thrilled" to make this announcement.

Update: Nate Silver at 538 analyzes Kaine's likely effect on Hillary's chances in November. He says he'll help a little, but not much.

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    Hillary Picks Tim Kaine as Running Mate | 129 comments (129 topical)

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    I was kind (5.00 / 5) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 08:59:55 PM EST
    of meh on Kaine until I read up on his background. Jeralyn, I would think that you mind move that way after finding out he's been an advocate for the underdog for a long time.

    And against (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 09:01:05 PM EST
    The death penalty

    Parent
    And 100% rating by planned parenthood (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 09:53:23 PM EST
    Despite being personally against abortion on religious grounds.

    "

    So I have taken the position, which is quite common among Catholics -- I have got a personal feeling about abortion, but the right rule for government is to let women make their own decisions."

    Kaine noted that the Supreme Court on Monday is expected to issue a ruling in a case challening the "onerous regulations" Texas has imposed on abortion clinics.

    "We fought those off in Virginia when I was governor because you have got to let people make their own moral choices when it comes to matters of reproduction, intimacy and relationships" said Kaine



    Parent
    Personally opposed. But 11 people (none / 0) (#83)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 01:59:36 AM EST
    were executed while Kaine was governor.

    Parent
    Did Virginia state law (none / 0) (#108)
    by Peter G on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 10:36:16 PM EST
    give the Governor unilateral authority to commute death sentences?

    Parent
    Apparently, yes. (none / 0) (#111)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 11:18:47 PM EST
    link

    Parent
    I think he has a point (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 08:05:26 AM EST
    Kaine is personally against the death penalty, but said that he had an obligation to uphold Virginia law.

    "I really struggled with that as governor. I have a moral position against the death penalty," he told The Washington Post in 2012. "But I took an oath of office to uphold it. Following an oath of office is also a moral obligation."

    Seems to me unless he campaigned by saying he would do this he really did not have the right to commute them all.

    I am against the death penalty but I'm also against executive over reach.

    Parent

    not really (none / 0) (#10)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 09:52:47 PM EST
    see here

    Parent
    They say (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 10:20:39 PM EST
    They have their talking points all ready to go for dealing with this stuff.

    I hope so.

    Hillarys has made her bed.  Now we all have to sleep in it.  

    Parent

    and at least (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 09:56:46 PM EST
    I'm consistent

    Parent
    even in 2006 (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 10:04:21 PM EST
    I called him a dismal choice when he was chosen to give the Dem. response to the SOTU -- as did many progressive dems

    Parent
    Well, let's make some lemonade... (5.00 / 8) (#16)
    by magster on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 12:58:22 AM EST
    Kaine cut his teeth on suing racist landlords. Trump cut his teeth by being one. There's probably a good commercial in there somewhere.

    Listening live to Kaine (5.00 / 5) (#34)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 01:06:38 PM EST
    He is better than I thought.

    Conversational. Humble. Real.  Easy to listen to.

    Very interesting background.  His wife was the daughter of the Republican Governor of Virginia who integrated the public schools and sent his kids to integrated schools.   Kaine sent his kids to same public schools with large minority enrollment.

    Parent

    His son is a Marine (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 01:09:50 PM EST
    who is deploying to Europe.   Kaine noted that his son is supporting NATO.   Tagged Trump.

    Repeatedly jabbed Trump without sounding mean.

    Spoke repeatedly in Spanish--very well, with a very good accent.

    I really like the guy.

    Parent

    Pretty (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 01:12:04 PM EST
    darn good, a large dollop of humble optimism, pointed but not mean spirited criticism of Trump, heartfelt empathy for the underprivileged and victims of gun violence, also a pretty enthusiastic cheerleader for Hillary.

    Parent
    Color me thoroughly (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 01:14:55 PM EST
    surprised.   He is really good.

    Parent
    A degree from Harvard Law (5.00 / 6) (#40)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 01:27:40 PM EST
    and he goes to a civil rights practice.  For 17 years.   Fights against the big boys.  He earned my respect with that.

    Parent
    I was prepared for "boring," but (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by christinep on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 04:57:36 PM EST
    Tim Kaine is definitely not boring.  For me, he spoke to inspiration & to a wanting to believe; he spoke as one who really is grateful for all that he has and as one who wants to give back/to help the society.  I was especially impressed with his positive background in civil rights and the entire diversity area. His determination to ameliorate gun violence is commendable.

    This man, I believe, will be persuasive. His ease with himself, his unforced warmth ... both husband & I actually applauded the TV...and, looking at each other to see if we were both nuts for converting instantly to Kaine Fans, we said almost simultaneously that this first impression was the strongest, most powerful "yes" response to a VP that either of us had ever felt.  Then, friend Susan called--Susan, who is quite reserved and not known for becoming the big advocate for someone at first blush--and, before anything else said, she blurted "I love him ... I can't believe how good he made me feel...he seems so down-to earth."

    So, there you have it.  From all that I've read about him (scanning, quick reads) he appears to be what HRC calls a "pragmatic progressive."  Actually, for both of them. what I am so drawn to is their emphasis on "delivering" what they promise. Practically speaking, Kaine could be expected to be a key asset in Virginia, Florida, & in parts of the Ohio blue-collar community. Kaine seems to me to be one who can go the distance with the best of them ... and, the VP debate should be fun to watch.  I'm betting that Tim Kaine can trounce an opponent with a smile, and offer a hand to lift him up afterward.  

    Parent

    Mean what you say . . . (none / 0) (#95)
    by JanaM on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 11:16:28 AM EST
    "for both of them. what I am so drawn to is their emphasis on "delivering" what they promise"

    Though this can obviously be controlled by outside forces at times, this is a measure of character.

    Parent

    VP (none / 0) (#50)
    by mogal on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 03:17:40 PM EST
    There are a lot of comments like yours on DK.  Sorry I missed his speech.

    Parent
    Absolutely no one... (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by kdog on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 10:54:02 AM EST
    will go Trump over the Kaine pick...but it's not the extra motivation for the more progressive or the youth to get to the polls.

    That's what she needed with the selection imo...a poll driver for the Occupy, youth, and hard left sets.

    Pick tells me she thinks victory is assured and Kaine is who she most wants to work with. It may well be assured, but let's hope that ain't counting eggs before they hatch.
     

    Agreed. (2.00 / 1) (#25)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 12:08:22 PM EST
    Mrs. Clinton apparently concluded that there was no political need to push the historic character of her candidacy.  And, instead, looked to a solid and unceremonious politician rather than run the political risk of another woman or a minority.

    Moreover, the strategy seems to be one that underscores by distinction the lunatic bling of Trump and his winger cypher, with the Democratic ticket's unflashy sanity.  A contrast between the historic and prehistoric.

    Of course, nothing is risk free. As you note, kdog, there is a need for an energizer to bring home the dangers of a Trump presidency to those just getting around to jettisoning the entertainment value of Trump and recognizing the  consequences of Trump. And, move to the importance of policy, experience and governance.--the antithesis to some of this season.

    A risk, too, is the retro-nature of the selection. The fluency in Spanish of Kaine is often mentioned--but that seems old-fashioned to me. If facility in the Spanish language is to be an asset, why not look to an Hispanic. The Kaine selection may be in the mode of the Biden selection, but Mrs. Clinton's historic candidacy has been, in large measure, accepted by her accomplishments during her lengthy public service.

      Not that there is no misogyny around. Far from it, but it is not much, if any, of a factor for Democrats, and, so second nature to Republicans that they call for her execution with as much concern for maligning a woman as was due process a concern at the Salem witch hunts. So, in my view, having Senator Warren as a running mate would have pushed the historic candidacy of Mrs. Clinton all right, but with strikes of lightening and enlightenment.    

       

    Parent

    It's unflashy... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 01:21:47 PM EST
    But sane? I don't know my brother, I don't know.

    Sane compared to the GOP is no measure of sanity. Son of Sam manages that very small feat.

    Nobody really selling economic or foreign policy sanity. Crazy and crazier.

    Parent

    The contrast that HRC is showing (none / 0) (#64)
    by christinep on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 05:34:08 PM EST
    IMO, the Clinton/Kaine ticked is meant to reinforce the experience, stability, and depth of governing knowledge that these times call for in our country.  That statement, reality will stand in stark contrast to the shoot-from-the-wherever method of Trump and his (maybe) nonentity sidekick Pence.  As a newly-minted Kaine fan--see my laudatory comment about the selection above--I think that these two pragmatic progressives will be found to have targeted quite well.

    A high voter turnout of minority voters, meeting or exceeding President Obama's turnout, has to be a special focus for the Democratic nominees this year.  Meanwhile, approximating the level of the white vote four years ago is very important ... in that regard, Kaine helps.  Clinton & Caine are playing to their strengths, and that is wise.  As for additional outreach to the more liberal segment of our party, it may be that the reality suggests the most successful strategy would be to utilize the campaign efforts of Sherrod Brown, Elizabeth Warren, Tom Perez, and Bernie Sanders directly ... for that constituency, they would make the best & most trusted argument for HRC.

    Playing to one's strength while also trying to expand the natural base may well be the smartest approach in these unpredictable times.  For that reason alone, it makes a lot of sense to stress the unbeatable value of experience, demonstrated governance rather than risking appearance and characterization as a ticket trying too hard to be original.  For many people, it is a major leap to vote for a woman for president ... remember the importance of breaking that barrier, because it is easier said than done ... for a number of people that I've encountered, they might need to get past the first barrier before adding another "first."  

    Before I forget: Check out the persuasive power of a personality that exudes the common touch.  It is a good bet Tim Kaine sure has it (and that is often 50% of getting it done.)  And, also, recheck the reactions among Latinos of all ages to Kaine's bilingual ease ... in the circumstances of his background, it may have more of a positive effect than might have been initially thought.

    Parent

    Agreed. (none / 0) (#74)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 07:06:20 PM EST
    This contrast was opined in a comment I made before the announcement of Kaine, as in... if it is Kaine....the strategy is likely....

    Parent
    I agree with you (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 11:07:44 AM EST
    Completely

    Parent
    Hillary's VP Pick (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by mogal on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 03:34:58 PM EST
    I think she picked him for many reasons, but mainly because the "love of neighbor" shines out of him.  I was depressed about this election until she ended her speech yesterday by saying. LOVE TRUMPS HATE, and that is what we now have going for us.  "Let us Rejoice"
    J: "or a minority to the ticket." (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 05:16:57 PM EST
    Clinton did put a minority on the ticket.  A male.

    Who cares (4.83 / 6) (#24)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 12:06:24 PM EST
    If the VP is not "exciting"?  What are we, 5 years old and need to have everything be fun?

    If you can't find excitement in the fact that the TOP of the ticket is a woman for the first time, or if you can't be properly scared at what the other party offers, then there's no hope for you.

    HRC picked someone who could step in the job of POTUS if needed.  Kaine wouldn't have been my first choice, but he is the BEST choice for the requirements. The other candidates just didn't have the chops at this time.

    I'm so over this CONSTANT need of voters to be "excited" by candidates  and entertained with thing like big rallies and "what's cool". Can't grownups get "excited" about smart, experienced, and competent people who are willing to step up and do the job?

    Presidential elections became a reality show long before Donald Trump came along and it's disgusting.

    The competition is so pathetic (3.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 12:27:28 PM EST
    I could have got more than just the 1st woman President out of this.

    Always make the most out of a crisis

    Parent

    Armando just tweeted (5.00 / 5) (#32)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 12:54:02 PM EST
    This is 1 of the greatest rollout appearances ever. Tim Kaine has flipped the script. He's gonna be great at the politics. I'm fully onboard.


    Parent
    Armando? (none / 0) (#75)
    by RickyJim on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 07:34:47 PM EST
    I gather people who haven't the foggiest idea who Armando is aren't worth an explanation.

    Parent
    Armando is also known as Big Tent (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 07:45:49 PM EST
    Democrat. BTD to those who know and love him.

    He is a sometimes poster here. He can also be found at the big Orange and on Twitter.

    Parent

    he's been the sole other contributor (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 03:04:20 AM EST
    to TalkLeft since 2006. He writes here under the name Big Tent Democrat. He has mostly been writing on Twitter the past few years, and only occasionally writes here nowadays, but still writes at Daily Kos and appears on Daily Kos radio. He used to practice in San Juan but has been based in New York for several years. Here is a book excerpt from Bloggers on the Bus describing his blogging and views during the 2008 campaign.

    We all miss him.

    Parent

    Whatever...prior to the rollout (none / 0) (#130)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 10:37:02 PM EST
    Armando had very similar complaints about lackluster Kaine.

    Parent
    I believe you are shortsighted (3.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 12:40:09 PM EST
    In dismissing a large part of the left

    Parent
    Then let them not vote (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 12:41:59 PM EST
    And if Trump wins, I don't want to hear one.single.thing out of them ever again.

    Kaine is rocking his speech, by the way.

    Parent

    I think a little time (3.00 / 1) (#38)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 01:15:45 PM EST
    is needed for many of the stalwarts. No need to write anyone off who may need to let off some steam. The disappointment that some may hold for the Kaine selection will give way soon for most.  While I believe that Mrs. Clinton could have been bolder and less cautious, Senator Kaine is a liberal who probably needed to tuck in some of his beliefs so as to not only be elected, but also, govern in Virginia.  I am sure the Clinton campaign studied this selection from all angles, including seemingly little things, such as the hard, and strong sound of Clinton/Kaine.

    Parent
    At least we got 3s (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 04:51:26 PM EST
    Better than the 1 I got a couple of days ago from that person for correctly predicting it would be Kaine.

    Parent
    Yes, that prediction, (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 05:39:06 PM EST
    although not your first choice, did seem to merit a troll rating. What a difference a day or so makes.  For me, the "3" is an upgrade from my "2".  I will just have to work harder on my comments, if I only know what it was so troubling to the reader, save for not liking what I feel or believe.

    Parent
    It seems that (none / 0) (#63)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 05:28:23 PM EST
    the purpose of the "l" has been learned. Not always sure what it is that makes matters become unglued. Perhaps, a study is in order.

    Parent
    I am notably impressed (4.80 / 5) (#67)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 05:44:02 PM EST
    by the discovery of the 3 and the 4. Two buttons that have suffered ignominious abandonment like red-headed stepchildren to the 1, 2. and 5.

    Parent
    Well Played Peter (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by CoralGables on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 05:59:45 PM EST


    Parent
    Fwiw (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 12:56:23 PM EST
    I agree.  He is doing a pretty terrific job.

    Parent
    Not a large part, Cap'n. (none / 0) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 05:25:59 PM EST
    Just the loud part.

    Parent
    A smaller part this afternoon (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 05:45:35 PM EST
    Than this morning.  That rollout was an encouraging thing to see.  Not just because it was so artfully done but also in contrast to the complete clusterfu@k that was the republican VP rollout.

    Sometimes experience in politics is not a bad thing.

    Parent

    So wise, (2.00 / 1) (#46)
    by JanaM on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 02:53:10 PM EST
    jb, so wise. I agree with everything.

    Parent
    Good points, but (none / 0) (#61)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 05:23:16 PM EST
    one can find excitement in the fact that a woman is at the top of the ticket for the first time and be properly scared at what the other party offers without totally dismissing the value-added potential of a certain excitement from the running mate.  It may be rigid, if not hapless, to judge those of different, but reasonable, expectations as hopeless. Particularly, because it is so essential to elect Mrs. Clinton and defeat Mr. Trump.

    The excitement generated does not have to be of the Tom Cruise/jump on Oprah's couch variety, but it can be in the prospect of supporting and motivating turn out. The qualities and unpretentious bearing of Senator Kaine may well be just the excitement to augment enthusiasm and interest.

    Parent

    In a perfect world (4.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Coral on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 07:08:09 AM EST
    I would have liked Perez or Warren. However, the GOP convention and Trump's bizarre behavior has frightened me so much about November, that I am somewhat relieved about HRC going for safety. Kaine has won a lot of elections in purple Virginia and fought the good fight in a quiet way, so I'm fine with him.

    I was nervous about Castro and Perez because they don't have the experience of several electoral battles. I'd keep an eye on both for the future.

    Warren is a rising power in the Senate. She can push Clinton to the left on finance and consumer protection. HRC's first task is to get a Supreme Court justice confirmed. Need Dems to take the Senate for that, and losing Brown, Warren, or Booker could have been devastating.

    What we need is a more progressive Congress and a less radical GOP. Maybe real progressive pushes from below can help make that happen.

    Also (5.00 / 8) (#20)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 07:36:28 AM EST
    Sherrod Brown, one of my faves. Barring disaster in the fall, the next set of epic battles will be fought in the Senate not in the White house and certainly not in the VP's office. We need Brown, Warren, Sanders, Booker, Franken and hopefully Feingold to lead the charge.

    One of the overarching emerging themes emerging from Hillary is the steady hand vs. the loose cannon. This "safe pick" plays directly to that narrative, which IMO is good move.

     

    Parent

    Bernie in the Senate too (3.00 / 1) (#26)
    by sallywally on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 12:16:09 PM EST
    A fair number of influential, strong progressives to keep her aware of the progressive side of the party. This is hopeful, I think. The people in Congress are all gaining and exercising power and will continue to do so.

    Parent
    That's the ballgame (4.33 / 3) (#43)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 01:47:58 PM EST
    Getting more Democrats in the House.  Making the Senate and House more progressive.

    Hillary won't get in the way of a progressive Congress.  

    Bernie and his supporters could really do some good if they can help deliver a Democratic and Progressive Congress.

    Parent

    Um where have they been? (none / 0) (#48)
    by JanaM on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 03:06:49 PM EST
    What's kept them from doing this kind of "good" for the last 8 years?

    They just don't seem all that interested in that kind of hard work.

    Parent

    Seriously? You don't know what has kept (3.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Peter G on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 03:23:09 PM EST
    the Democrats -- progressive or moderate -- from doing much of anything good for the last eight years that requires Congressional action? Where have you been?

    Parent
    I think she means (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 03:28:08 PM EST
    Where have Bernie supporters been?  We know they haven't been organizing and voting....

    Parent
    If so, I apologize (none / 0) (#55)
    by Peter G on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 03:33:31 PM EST
    I do hate pronouns that seem to have ambiguous referents.

    Parent
    Then you should vote for the Donald (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 11:47:20 AM EST
    He only uses one.  "I"

    Parent
    And how do "we" know that? (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 04:54:54 PM EST


    Parent
    Because "we" read (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 11:29:08 AM EST


    Parent
    strange question, jb (none / 0) (#126)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 12:37:22 PM EST
    according to some of your previous disparagement, they were in junior high school, if that old.  Not "grownups," for sure.


    Parent
    Nah (none / 0) (#127)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 12:42:37 PM EST
    They keep telling us they're smarter and more enlightened thsn the rest of us, so being in junior high is no excuse.

    Parent
    Hope Springs Eternal (none / 0) (#49)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 03:13:21 PM EST
    Time to start, then.

    Parent
    my guess (1.67 / 3) (#45)
    by linea on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 02:38:18 PM EST
    she picked him cuz he's 5-10 (bio says that so he may actually be shorter). most male politicians are well over six feet and would make her look short and dumpy standing next to her so she picked him for the optics.

    I'm gonna guess (5.00 / 5) (#53)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 03:27:07 PM EST
    That had nothing to do with it.

    Parent
    I had not considered it (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 05:41:31 PM EST
    But it's as good a reason as I have heard.

    Parent
    Cheney is at a height disadvantage to Kaine (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 05:48:35 PM EST
    so certainly he was also on the short list.

    Parent
    Shoulda picked Robert Reich. (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 10:05:56 PM EST


    Parent
    Donald will tower over her in the debates (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 10:23:50 PM EST
    He's 6'2"

    As they say it's not the dog in the fight it's the fight in the dog.  Or something like that.

    Parent

    Did not hurt her in her debates (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by ruffian on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 10:30:30 AM EST
    with Rick Lazio when she won her Senate seat. In fact it served to heighten the perception of him as a bully. She knows how to handle the situation.

    And as far as being overshadowed by a tall running mate, she will be campaigning with Obama, Bill Clinton, and Elizabeth Warren, all of whom are tall and none of whom she seems to be the least afraid of standing next to.

    Parent

    To be clear (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 10:32:52 AM EST
    I was snarking.   Personally.

    Parent
    So glad you (none / 0) (#98)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 12:39:30 PM EST
    clarified. No doubt odged the sting of the maurading Mother Superior.

    Parent
    I know...should have put it in a reply (none / 0) (#103)
    by ruffian on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 04:58:42 PM EST
    to the original post!

    Parent
    She should stand on a step stool. (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 01:56:25 AM EST
    He'll go crazy. Oh, wait...

    Parent
    Cheney picked himself. (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 08:29:53 AM EST


    Parent
    thank you!! (none / 0) (#76)
    by linea on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 07:42:40 PM EST
    obviously not the ONLY reason but i'm 5-5 and if i was applying for the position of "commander in chief" i wouldn't want a 6-2 man making me appear diminutive to an audience.

    Parent
    Always going to be an issue (none / 0) (#92)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 08:35:02 AM EST
    Unless the first woman president was an Amazon.  Women are generally shorter than men.

    Hillary's official bio lists her at 5'7", probably for the very reason you suggest - she doesn't want to look "small" compared to Trump (who is about 6'2" and just a large man), but as someone who has stood right next to her and had a picture taken with her, I can tell you with 100% certainty that she most definitely is not 5'7".  I am a little under 5'4" and when we met, we both had around 2" heels on.  She looked a hair taller than me, and by "hair", I mean that her hair was a little poofier than mine that day.

    Parent

    I had only seen Hillary on TV and not (none / 0) (#101)
    by vml68 on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 03:02:17 PM EST
    given much thought to her height but on Friday I saw her up close and in person for the first time and I was struck by how small she is. My husband made the same comment.
    She just seems so much bigger/taller on TV.


    Parent
    They say the camera adds (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by caseyOR on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 03:07:12 PM EST
    Five inches. :-)

    Parent
    Many women lose some height (none / 0) (#109)
    by Peter G on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 10:43:24 PM EST
    with age, due to changes in bone chemistry. Perhaps HRC was 5'7" twelve years ago, or something like that.

    Parent
    How tall was she in law school? (none / 0) (#121)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 11:53:11 AM EST


    Parent
    I'm sorry to see what has happened (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 12:02:04 PM EST
    To you.  You were once respected here.  At least by me.  Enjoy your 5s. You have earned them.

    Parent
    If you think I can remember that (none / 0) (#123)
    by Peter G on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 12:02:08 PM EST
    you don't understand one of the other things that men (and women) lose with age ... an accurate memory.

    Parent
    Look at old pictures of Bill and Hill from that ti (none / 0) (#125)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 12:20:25 PM EST
    He's around 6'1".

    Parent
    well we do lose (none / 0) (#129)
    by athyrio on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 04:57:10 PM EST
    height as we age...I have lost 3 inches due to spinal surgery as well as being 71 yrs old....

    Parent
    Ha! [sarcastic laughter] (1.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Nemi on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 11:46:13 AM EST
    And after their first joint rally it didn't take commenters long to point out the obvious(!): Of course Tim Kaine ought to be at the top of the ticket.

    Sigh. But no surprise there, sorry to say.

    JanaM (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by Nemi on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 12:44:37 PM EST
    care to explain the troll rating? In case you don't understand my comment, I'm laughing at the commenters who apparently don't think a woman can be at the top of the ticket. Do you have a problem with that, then say so instead of these constant passive-aggressive down-ratings of comments you apparently don't agree with. It's getting tiresome!

    Parent
    Yes, after long period of (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 12:57:24 PM EST
    limiting contributions to TL to maurading through threads with her "red pencil," Miss M. has recently provided comments, many of which make sense. Ratings are a convenient way of indicating that the comment was read along with an indication of support or non-support.  However, ratings without comment as a steady diet do not add much to the discussion, especially when erratic and enigmatic.

    Parent
    One Guess (none / 0) (#1)
    by RickyJim on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 08:29:56 PM EST
    The fact the Kaine's senate successor will be appointed by Democratic Governor Terry McAuliffe might be one reason for this choice over Sen. Warren.  

    Just listening to a conversation (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 08:32:56 PM EST
    About how this could get dicy because the senate could end up 50-50 and this could put a critical special election in an iffy state right in the middle of Hillarys first term

    McCauliffe might pick himself.

    Parent

    Rumo has it that the (none / 0) (#5)
    by MKS on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 08:52:59 PM EST
    Black Caucus likes the Kaine pick because it will provide an opening for perhaps Bobby Scott.

    Parent
    uninspiring but (none / 0) (#3)
    by pitachips on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 08:47:42 PM EST
    Pretty Standard for presidential elections. Start with the base, then shift to shoring up the "establishment." Hillary is a pretty cautious politician. No way she was going to rock the boat by choosing Warren or anyone else that her donors would be uncomfortable with.

    oh (none / 0) (#4)
    by linea on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 08:51:27 PM EST
    i shoudn't care but was actually hoping for a woman veep. i'm properly disappointed.

    Don't understand the (none / 0) (#8)
    by ragebot on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 09:01:31 PM EST
    Kaine pick.  There seems to be lots of outsider v insider factions both in the Democratic and Republican parties.  Both Trump and Sanders attracted voters as outsiders.  Kaine is definitely an insider and I expected Hillary to try and attract some of Sanders outsider voters with her pick.

    But most folks will probably agree this election is Donald v Hillary and both VPs are just along for the ride.

    If there's (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 09:29:40 PM EST
    been a VP that changed the electoral math in the last 40 years or so I sure can't think of one.

    Parent
    Last VP to help win was (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by ragebot on Fri Jul 22, 2016 at 10:54:50 PM EST
    LBJ.  

    Parent
    But then (none / 0) (#18)
    by Nemi on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 06:40:35 AM EST
    a woman has never before been at the top of the ticket, so there's that ... to take into consideration.

    Parent
    This particilar VP and his wife (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 01:32:47 PM EST
    Anne Horton (see Wiki re her extensive resume) are a strong asset.

    Parent
    Exactly (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by Nemi on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 02:08:35 PM EST
    When earlier it was a question of whether a male VP would make a difference for the male nominee, we now have a new setup where perhaps both the male VP and his wife can make a difference for the female nominee. A whole new dynamic with no presedence to compare it with.

    An interesting 'tidbit' from an article in WaPo about Anne Holton:

    As a schoolgirl in 1970, she was on the front lines of the fight to desegregate Virginia's public schools. Holton is the daughter of Virginia Gov. A. Linwood Holton (R), who championed integration in a state that was known for its vigorous efforts to resist it. To drive home this point, he sent his daughters to a historically all-black Richmond City public school, escorting Anne Holton's sister to class in a gesture captured in a historic photograph.


    Parent
    Gore in '92? (none / 0) (#70)
    by christinep on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 05:59:50 PM EST


    Parent
    How about Lieberman (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 06:01:43 PM EST
    In 2000

    Parent
    Personal disappointment aside (3.50 / 2) (#17)
    by Nemi on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 06:36:56 AM EST
    to me it makes perfect sense that she would choose a white male as VP as that seems to be the demographic she has the most difficulty attracting.

    On the other hand reading the comments to the pages Jeralyn links to is rather disquieting. Picking Tim Kaine certainly doesn't seem to be what's needed to bring back former Democrats or those contemplating leaving the party. Quite the contrary.

    What turned me against him reading up on him in the past was learning that though opposed to the death penalty, he still oversaw 11 executions while governor. But maybe he had no choice? (No pun intended.)

    And while there's far too much at stake for Hillary Clinton to risk a 'bold' or 'controversial' pick, she still had an amazing lineup of people who could have brought excitement to pick and choose from, and yet ...

    Oh well. :(

    Parent

    Armando on twitter not really (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 11:30:35 AM EST
    Impressed with Nate Silver posting how "close" the race is, indicates that until after the Democratic Convention completes this is premature counting.

    I hope Armando is right since I got riled yesterday and in an argument with Trumpers, because the candidates haven't even squared off yet. Feeling more confident cuz whew...Armando says so too...neener neener neener ;)

    Trump going after Kaine on "gifts" (none / 0) (#27)
    by sallywally on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 12:27:26 PM EST
    and Wikileaks releasing emails showing the DNC discussing how to undermine Bernie's candidacy. Ben Jealous on MSNBC, mouth going 100 miles an hour about this. He irritates me greatly anytime he talks, but I think Debbie Wasserman-Schultz should fall on her sword immediately. And Hillary just thanked her in the list of folks to thank at the start of her appearance in Miami just now.

    Ooh (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 12:42:46 PM EST
    The DNC talking about strategy to support the ONLY Democrat in the race.  And DWS wanted Hamilton tickets!

    Parent
    Some of these "leaked" emails (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 05:13:05 PM EST
    Are really laugh out loud.

    One they were very "concerned" about on MSNBC said something like the DNC wanted Hillary to win and expected her to win.

    OMG they WANTED her to win and actually EXOECTED her to win?!?!?

    Help me to the fainting couch.

    Another was complaining about the fact that the Sanders campaign was disorganized and wouldn't return phone calls.   Which was responded to by another saying "yeah, but we can't make a big deal out of it"

    BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT THESE CONVERSATIONS WERE EVEN TAKING PLACE?!?!? They worried.

    WTF
    they weren't supposed to talk about it?

    Unbelievable.

    Parent

    Why is Wikileaks (none / 0) (#73)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 06:38:43 PM EST
    Helping The Donald?

    This makes no sense at all

    http://tinyurl.com/zmbytfj


    "We have an electoral process. The DNC, by its charter, is required to be neutral among the candidates. Clearly it was not," Weaver said, responding for the first time to the growing controversy. "We had obviously pointed that out in a number of instances prior to this, and these emails just bear that out."

    Another member of Sanders' staff, Rania Batrice put it this way: "Everything our fans have been saying -- and they were beaten down for and called conspiracy theorists -- and now it's in black and white."

    The email dump comes at a crucial time, just days before the party's national convention in Philadelphia, with thousands of delegates representing both campaigns gathering from across the country. Weaver and several other members of the Sanders staff have said they are worried the news could disrupt the goals of the convention.



    Parent
    Gawd (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 07:50:43 PM EST
    I so look forward to the day when Weaver goes back to his comic book store and SsTFU.

    actually it makes perfect sense.  This stuff is said to come frm Russian hackers.  If not from Putin probably with his blessing.  Of course he wants to help Donald.  Donald would probably destroy the country.  He would certainly make us the worlds laughing stock.  Putin probably w@nks fantasizing about a President Donald J Trump.

    That and the fact that he has said over and over he wants to blow off NATO.  

    Why WOULDNT Putin want to help Donald

    Parent

    A very interesting article by Josh Marshall (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by vml68 on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 09:09:42 PM EST
    at TPM about Trump and Putin.

    Parent
    This (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 06:42:38 AM EST
    could be bad for Trump, I don't know how meat is on this burger, but if there is anything there Josh will not let it go(see AG scandal).

    Racism, misogyny and a myriad of other flaws big and small are all acceptable to Trump's coalition, but I think being in bed with Putin could be a mortal sin to many if not most of them.

    Parent

    I out it in the new open thread (none / 0) (#87)
    by ruffian on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 06:47:18 AM EST
    Did not see it here. Really fascinating.

    Parent
    Looks (none / 0) (#112)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 07:44:21 AM EST
    like the Clinton camp is picking up on it
    Clinton's campaign manager: Russia helping Trump

    Zeroing in on the odd platform change that Josh pointed out

    It comes on the heels of "changes to the Republican platform to make it more pro-Russian," Robby Mook told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union" Sunday.
     At first I thought it was a bit of a dangerous step into tin foil land (it's already been ridiculed), but on reflection it's not the type of unforced error the Clinton camp would make, I think there is some actual fire behind this smoke.

    Parent
    The FBI (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 07:59:49 AM EST
    Has been investigating it, di they consider ot credible enough.  Also, many cyber security experts are confident it's the Russians .

    Parent
    NYTimes (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 08:09:43 AM EST
    front page

    Not just smoke.

    Parent

    Interesting comment from the (none / 0) (#118)
    by ragebot on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 10:22:23 AM EST
    NYT story.

    APTs 28 and 29? As in there's 27 more advanced persistent threats that still probably have access to the DNC network? They've got more problems than just the Russians if that's the case.


    Parent
    As far as tinfoil hat land (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 08:32:25 AM EST
    Even morning Joe agrees this, quoting today's NYTimes story, was a creepy and chilling story.

    It's real.  It's pretty much without precedent.  It should absolutely be used by the campaign.

    Can you possibly imagine what republicans would be doing if he was helping Hillary.   They would be talking seriously about hanging her for treason.

    Parent

    It does make sense if wikileaks is supported (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by ruffian on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 06:46:02 AM EST
    by Russia in any way.

    Parent
    crude paranoic innuendo (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 05:23:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Not sure if this is snark (none / 0) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 05:52:33 PM EST
    But it neither paranoiac or innuendo

    How Putin Weaponized WIKILEAKS to Influence the Election on an American President

    Parent

    Consider the source of the comment. (1.00 / 1) (#114)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 08:00:21 AM EST


    Parent
    I think he's a smart guy (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 10:41:40 AM EST
    You would think he would examine the source of the consistent 5s and reconsider.

    Whatever.

    Parent

    "sources suggest" (none / 0) (#124)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 12:17:18 PM EST
    That's brilliant, Howdy.  Hyperbolic innuendo in defense of crude innuendo.  Every freakin' source of a source in that article is a company peddling paranoia and cyber-security services.

    Really, Howdy, it's past time for you to take at least a cursory glance at the logic portal at rational wiki.


    Parent

    DWS is basically termed out (none / 0) (#41)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 01:30:54 PM EST
    Obama likes her, so she won't get axed (which is really interesting because in the 2008 Primary she was a Hillary supporter.)

    But Hillary people are taking over DNC.  DWS will have less and less to do....Sent out to pasture.

    Parent

    She's done at the end of the year anyway (none / 0) (#52)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 03:26:33 PM EST


    Parent
    Sidelined!! (none / 0) (#89)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 07:34:10 AM EST
    (CNN)The head of the Democratic National Committee will not speak at the party's convention next week, a decision reached by party officials Saturday after emails surfaced that raised questions about the committee's impartiality during the Democratic primary.

    Debbie Wasserman Schultz, whose stewardship of the DNC has been under fire through most of the presidential primary process, will not have a major speaking role in an effort "to keep the peace" in the party, a Democrat familiar with the decision said. The revelation comes following the release of nearly 20,000 emails
    One email appears to show DNC staffers asking how they can reference Bernie Sanders' faith to weaken him in the eyes of Southern voters.



    Parent
    Of course (none / 0) (#90)
    by jbindc on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 08:29:25 AM EST
    She spoke at two rallies already this weekend, including the Kaine introduction - AFTER the whole Wikileaks thing came out.

    Parent
    DNC emails (none / 0) (#47)
    by JanaM on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 02:55:00 PM EST
    are a nothing story. Big fat zero.

    Parent
    Wedges ... beware the wedges (none / 0) (#72)
    by christinep on Sat Jul 23, 2016 at 06:04:48 PM EST
    Trump & company (and others) will try a few wedges--such as you describe--but, I suspect that these will prove insignificant.  (BTW, Trump still needs to resolve his party's divisions...starting with Cruz.  He might want to attend to that fundamental.)

    Parent
    Trump would do well to take your advice (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by ruffian on Sun Jul 24, 2016 at 06:48:14 AM EST
    But he cannot seem to let Cruz go. He is too small a person to ever do that.

    Parent
    Jr. flips out (none / 0) (#128)
    by Nemi on Mon Jul 25, 2016 at 03:04:57 PM EST
    After Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook suggested that experts say Russians are behind the DNC hacks and leaks, Donald Trump Jr. slammed the Clinton campaign for "lying", claiming that if a Republican lied like the Clinton camp, "they would bring out the electric chair."

    "It just goes to show you their exact moral compass, I mean, they'll say anything to win," Donald Trump Jr said, working himself up into a state of indignant rage that anyone else would dare to treat the truth and facts like his father does. [heh :)]
    Hillary Picks Tim Kaine as Running Mate | 129 comments (129 topical)

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