Donald Trump Re-Indicted in January 6 Case

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2024
Posted on Tue Aug 27, 2024 at 07:21:24 PM EST
Tags: Donald Trump, January 6 (all tags)

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Special Counsel Jack Smith has filed a new Indictment against Donald Trump in the January 6 case in the District of Columbia. (available here).

The charges are the same. But to comply with the recent Supreme Court decision saying his presidential acts were immune, the government changed the roles of those involved, and the wording and facts are different. The Indictment doesn't refer to acts while he was in the oval office, and instead uses his acts while he was just a candidate.

While prosecutors did not drop the four initial charges from the new indictment, they added more language that describes Trump as a "candidate," and not president, while describing others as "acting in their private capacity" and not "government officials."

[More...]

According to informal Justice Department policy, the department holds off on indicting persons or executing search warrants in politically related cases during the 60 days before an election so that its actions are not perceived as politically motivated or attempts to affect an election. The 60 day period as to Trump begins in 10 days.

The Washington Post reports:

...the indictment no longer accuses someone referred to in the original document as “Co-Conspirator No. 4,” but who is identifiable from details in the indictment as former Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark.

Instead of six uncharged co-conspirators in the indictment, there are now five — most of them lawyers who advised Trump on his efforts to undo the results of the 2020 presidential election, according to details provided in the indictment. Smith revised his description of the five individuals to pointedly refer to each as “private” lawyers or a consultant, seeking to distinguish their conduct from official government acts.

The new charges were voted on by a different grand jury than the one that returned the original Indictment.

My reaction: This is good news, but only if Trump is defeated in November. If he wins, his AG can dismiss the charges. If he loses the election, he can be tried during Kamala's presidency.

Donald Trump sure has a lot riding on this election. But so do voters, who need to show up in great numbers to boot him out of the political orbit for good.

< Kamala's Night to Shine | Harris and Trump Debate: The Three P's >

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Donald Trump Re-Indicted in January 6 Case | 112 comments (112 topical)

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If Merrick Garland wasn't such a spineless (5.00 / 2) (#1)
by Chuck0 on Tue Aug 27, 2024 at 07:51:38 PM EST

wet noodle, this case would adjudicated already.

: The next AG (none / 0) (#6)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 03:45:29 PM EST

is going to be so important

It seems very smart (5.00 / 2) (#2)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 09:14:15 AM EST

to have formed a new Grand Jury so they can't say the charges were influenced by evidence they should not have heard about his supposedly official acts.

Special Counsel, Jack Smith, (5.00 / 2) (#3)
by KeysDan on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 02:29:52 PM EST

is giving the case a smart and good try, but I fear he faces an uphill, if not insurmountable, battle.

The Supreme Court decision, in the aptly named, Trump v The United States of America, is intended to protect Trump from criminal prosecution. And, it will be interpreted in a manner to do so.

In Justice Jackson's dissent, and recently, in an interview, she expressed her view that the ruling was to protect just one person, Trump.

The Court's ruling is dressed up with "official" and "unofficial" presidential actions--what is allowed to be charged or used as evidence is vague and undefined, but will ultimately be settled by the Supreme Court later.

Official, core, and unofficial presidential actions, from a charging perspective, are likely to be intertwined and not easily cleaved. And, even when an action may seem to be outlandishly unrelated to official responsibilities, wrapping it up in core actions such as a call to DOJ or a Cabinet meeting may put it out of bounds. Or, the crime is fouled by even evidence tenuously related to official actions--an aspect of the SC ruling so bad that Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh lost Barrett.

Jack Smith acknowledges in his new indictment that the Supreme Court has defeated charges related to the scheme to enlist the DOJ in the coup (deleted). A substantive component of the plot to overthrow the government. His retooling of the indictment is smart, but is counter to the rulings intent and will get the evil eye of the Supreme Court hacks.

The effort of the Special Counsel to conform to the Supreme Court brings legal acceptance to a corrupt decision- not a bad decision made in good faith, but a bad decision made in bad faith.

I regret being a skunk at the garden party, but I believe the Supreme Court to be an American tragedy, failing the nation at the time of its most critical need.

From the conservative point of view (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by jondee on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 03:18:17 PM EST

the SC is working exactly as it was intended to.

Like the Blues Brothers, they're on a mission from God. And maybe Harlan Crow.


I do not agree (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 03:44:19 PM EST

I think it's reasonable that even if the supreme Court had impure motives he makes an excellent case that immunity is not unlimited.

I think he will make his charges stick.

I also think reigning in this court is going to be high on the "to do" list of the new administration.

In fact I think there will be big pressure to end the filibuster and get some real work done.


I have no doubts (none / 0) (#7)
by jondee on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 03:49:09 PM EST

that he can make a fantastic case. Making anything stick is another story.


After he loses again (5.00 / 2) (#8)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 03:52:26 PM EST

Trump is just going to be a crazy old man.

He's not a mythical figure. He just a stupid rich guy with good lawyers who has come to the end of his tether.

It will stick.


Dude, I so hope you're right (5.00 / 4) (#12)
by jondee on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 04:33:06 PM EST

You don't do this if you are winning (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 04:48:31 PM EST

"The post, by another user on Truth Social, was an image of Ms. Harris and Hillary Clinton, Mr. Trump's opponent in 2016. The text read: `Funny how blow§obs impacted both their careers differently.'"
"Mr. Trump's repost was the second time in 10 days that the former president shared content from his personal account making sexually oriented attacks on Ms. Harris."

Two important things are coming (none / 0) (#13)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 04:41:35 PM EST

The debate. Where I really think he is going to look bad. And do bad. And say bad.

And then....sentencing a couple of days later.


I wonder if he's going (none / 0) (#15)
by jondee on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 05:23:24 PM EST

to use the plexiglass, reptile-enclosure thingy for the debate?


If they stick to the rules (none / 0) (#16)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 05:28:05 PM EST

no studio audience, right?


That's the rules I think. (none / 0) (#17)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 05:31:30 PM EST

It's just HER and HIM.

no hooting monkeys. Six feet apart.

Personally I would find that terrifying and I am a huge Kamala fan.


She should wear a gold (none / 0) (#18)
by jondee on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 09:21:33 PM EST

hunting rifle pendant on chain to make him jumpy.


: PWire (none / 0) (#19)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 29, 2024 at 08:23:42 AM EST

Trump Campaign Puts Its Hopes on Winning Debate
August 29, 2024 at 9:08 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 26 Comments
"Donald Trump's campaign insists that they're pursuing multiple strategies against Kamala Harris, but the true picture that is emerging is that the Trump senior advisers' grand plan, for now, is to pray that the former US president has a good night at the presidential debate next month," The Guardian reports.
"The game plan, in other words, has become one of hoping that Trump wins the debate so they can regain momentum - a stunning approach that shows the serious predicament for Trump and his campaign as he struggles to find ways to land effective attacks against the vice-president just months before the election."
"What has happened internally in the Trump campaign in recent weeks is the realization that nothing they do in the period up to the debate is likely to cut through in a significant way that blunts Harris's gains that have her level in key swing state polls, according to people close to the matter."

FWIW (none / 0) (#10)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 04:01:39 PM EST

I do not think this election will be "close".

That whatever else the outcome will not come down to one or two states.

Of course Trump thinks he can steal it, he is insane. He can't. He is not president this time.

Any "resistance" will be delt with swiftly.


: Agreed (none / 0) (#20)
by coast on Thu Aug 29, 2024 at 10:06:34 AM EST

Unfortunately, from my perspective of course, this is the Vice President's campaign to lose.

I thought, and probably said, this before (none / 0) (#9)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 03:56:59 PM EST

I think it's much better for everyone that no really important trials happened before the election.

Before it sounded like a good idea.
But if he had not been able to run the outcome of all this would forever be haunted by conspiracies.

Of course there will be conspiracies anyway but it's much better that he LOSE the election first.

Then lose in court. Which is exactly what is coming,


Joe Biden is right (5.00 / 3) (#11)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 28, 2024 at 04:21:25 PM EST

About many things but especially about MAGAs threat to democracy that Harris/Walz has pivoted away from. No problem there, it's a gloomy subject and I'm all for winning.

But the decision makers can not, IMO, be allowed to forget how close to the edge our Republic really is. So keep reminding them Joe.

They can't be allowed to believe that pro democracy arguments won this election. Because alone, they would not. Sorry, they would not.

I firmly believe that if Dobbs never happened we would probably lose this election.

Consider that for a minute.

Among other things what I think that means is when we control all three branches we must DO STUFF.

They have to be forced to abandon the filibuster and do all they stuff we have always wanted.

And then let Republicans try to take it away.
It really might be the last chance.
We need to do what they would do.

Excellent updates available on Tr*mp's attempts (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Peter G on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 11:25:32 AM EST

to reopen his previously-denied motion to remove the New York case to federal court, thereby thwarting his imminent sentencing. From veteran journalist Lyle Denniston. And analyzing the Friday night filings by the parties requesting scheduling of further steps in the D.C. federal January 6/Electoral College interference case.

Thank you for (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by KeysDan on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 01:14:06 PM EST

providing these references, they are very helpful.

Mr. Denniston writes that if Trump were to win the presidency, the Jan. 6 case might never go to trial; as president, he would be in charge of the Justice Department and could act to end his own prosecution.

This seems to be a generally acknowledged understanding, but on what legal basis would Trump lawfully act to do so? This anticipation of such a Trump act has been voiced long before the Supreme Court immunity decision. And, the legally of a self-pardon has not been considered by the Supreme Court.

Apparently, under the Supreme Court ruling on presidential immunity, a conspiracy to subvert the US Justice Department would be official business since discussion with DOJ are core responsibilities. Indeed, the superseding indictment deleted Trump's interaction with Jeff Clark, a co-conspirator in the previous charging document and the dullard who was almost made acting AG and was willing to do Trump's bidding (Clark is now in disbarment proceedings.

Of course, why would Trump be bothered with legal niceties. And, if he does win, this will be the least of the nation's worries.


My non attorney prediction (none / 0) (#23)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 02:25:05 PM EST

is that Judge Engoron will proceed with the sentencing and tell Trump to take it on appeal.

What do you think?

I've seen some legal pundits say he might grant the request to move it to a federal court.


Yes, the (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by KeysDan on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 02:51:03 PM EST

X34 felonies was Judge Merchant's case. My worry is not with rulings of lower courts, federal or state. Indeed, the DC Circuit court ruling on immunity was masterful. The fly in the ointment is the oleaginous Supreme Court. The immunity ruling is among the worst. In the nation's history--right up there with Dred Scott, Plessy v Ferguson, and Korematsu. V United States. And, Dobbs..


: Make (none / 0) (#27)
by KeysDan on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 03:14:26 PM EST

that Judge Merchan.

It is not up to Justice Merchan whether (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by Peter G on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 04:11:19 PM EST

to "grant" removal of the NY case to federal court. If properly requested (which apparently it has not yet been, according to Harry Litman), it is up to the federal judge (Hellerstein) to allow the removal or dismiss it (remand to state court). It is my recollection of the rules that if and when removal is properly requested the state court is automatically divested of jurisdiction until and unless the case is remanded by the federal judge.


Badly worded question, dorry (none / 0) (#29)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 04:39:01 PM EST

I get that part. Do you think he will proceed with sentencing?

Unless the federal judge moves before the sentencing date there is no reason he can't proceed, right?


I hear a bobblehead say (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 04:41:01 PM EST

there might not be enough time to head off the sentencing. Which is obviously he point


Federal Judge Hellerstein has denied (5.00 / 2) (#58)
by Peter G on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 07:14:29 PM EST

the removal petition today, Monday. I think that order is appealable, but there is no likelihood of a stay pending appeal, imho. So the NY case proceeds to sentencing. And apparently Tr*mp now concedes he should be sent to prison in that case: "When asked to comment about the latest incident [that is, the recent conviction for domestic violence of a formerly life-sentenced drug dealer, convicted in the death of an undercover agent, whose sentence Tr*mp had commuted in January 2021 after 30 years], Karoline Leavitt, a spokeswoman for Mr. Trump, said only, "President Trump believes anyone convicted of a crime should spend time behind bars.""


More analysis on the refusal to (5.00 / 1) (#68)
by Peter G on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 02:52:37 PM EST

allow the NYC criminal case to be moved to federal court (and then supposedly to be dismissed) is here, on Lyle Denniston's blog.


Question about your link (5.00 / 1) (#69)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 03:02:02 PM EST

Besides turning aside the immunity claim, Judge Hellerstein ruled that he had no authority, as a federal judge, to consider two other legal claims by Trump: that the trial judge in New York and the state courts were biased against him, and that the September 18 sentencing hearing must be blocked. Those types of legal issues are for the state courts to decide, the judge decided.
It is not clear whether Trump has a legal right to appeal Judge Hellerstein's new ruling to higher federal courts, including the Supreme Court.

How and why is it "not clear".

Also I've been wondering if he might delay the sentencing rather than risk giving Trump a boost. Which it could do.


: Adding (5.00 / 1) (#70)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 03:21:58 PM EST

I hope he goes ahead with it. I think it's worth the risk. Trump is the reason it's happening in September

: I don't know why Lyle finds it "unclear" (5.00 / 5) (#77)
by Peter G on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 04:18:23 PM EST

whether the rejection of the removal petition is an appealable order. I read the statute and find it rather clear (albeit quite technical) that it is. Lyle has an enormous amount of experience covering complex court proceedings, and a well-earned stellar reputation for that work, but he is not a lawyer. My own experience and professional judgment tell me that such an appeal would amount to spinning of wheels and accomplish nothing. But I also thought the challengers had the better of the Colorado eligibility case and that the Supreme Court would never hold that a President has absolute criminal immunity. So, take my views for what they are worth.

And this, from your link (none / 0) (#32)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 04:54:24 PM EST

The first time that was attempted, it took almost twelve weeks before U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein ruled that the prosecution of Trump did not qualify for removal to a federal court.

So, my question is can Merchan just go ahead and sentence him on the 18th, after dealing with all the other chaf from Trump's lawyers about recusal and dismissal?

That's my hope.


Oops (none / 0) (#24)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 02:26:24 PM EST

Judge Merchan?


This is from Law&Crime (none / 0) (#25)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 02:40:15 PM EST

It sounds like pretty weak tea.

The defense has said that Merchan criticized "Trump's use of Twitter" in a 2019 conversation with his daughter Loren Merchan, the president of Authentic Campaigns that Trump lawyers have emphasized has "long-standing" professional ties and a "beneficial working relationship" with Democrats, including the Harris-Walz campaign.
Merchan, having shown this kind of "hostility" towards Trump's social media use and having issued a since upheld gag order shielding his daughter from criticism, should not be the judge left to decide whether the former president's convictions should stand and whether sentencing should occur, the defense said.
"During a 2019 podcast, Justice Merchan's daughter explained that she `had a couple conversations with my Dad recently,' in which Justice Merchan said `I hate that politicians use Twitter,' `It's so unprofessional,' and `That's not how a politician should behave themselves,'" the filing recounted. "Justice Merchan's daughter said that she agreed and `explained' to Justice Merchan that `when our President tweets anything that he thinks, . . . that's not what he should be using it for.'"
From this, the defense concluded the judge "apparently `hate[s]' Twitter-using politicians like President Trump," but is "nevertheless" in a position to decide whether "2018 Tweets were official acts under Trump v. United States."
"Given the federal institutional interests at stake, that poses an intolerable risk of local bias under the Supremacy Clause," the defense argued.

Good news bad news (5.00 / 1) (#44)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 01, 2024 at 03:35:27 PM EST

Good news that it's not 50% bad news that 47% of our country is fascist.

Notice a pattern in Trump's ballot share in these recent polls? He's at 47% nationally in the Wall Street Journal poll; 47% in that EPIC-MRA Michigan poll; and 47% in Georgia and Michigan, per the Bloomberg/Morning Consult surveys.
As it turns out, 47% was Trump's popular-vote share in the 2020 election (which he lost), and it was 46% in 2016 (which he won).

NBC

At a "Moms for Liberty" (5.00 / 1) (#45)
by KeysDan on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 01:04:47 PM EST

event, Trump said that schools are performing transgender surgery on children without parental knowledge. According to Trump ..... your kids go to school and come home a few days later with an operation. Fifteen years later, they ask who did this to me. The "Moms " roared with approval.

It is the addled, cognitively impaired Trump that will be a challenge to Vice President Harris at the September 10 "debate". It is difficult to argue with crazy. There can be no sane evaluation of the pros and cons nor meaningful exchange of ideas and policies.

Defense against Trump, an opponent bereft of knowledge and ethics; against a firehose of lies; against bullying and bluster; against misogyny and racism; and against "nasty woman" assertions, needs to be built on a foundation of Trump's pathetic humanoid characteristics.

The Vice President is an excellent debater, her skills honed as a prosecutor and senator. And she will do very well, but debate prep needs ways and means to deal with Trump's functioning deficits.

That Trumpian fire hose (5.00 / 3) (#46)
by jondee on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 01:27:13 PM EST

of bs is enabled by the outlets solely focused on ratings. Unfortunately, there's a not insignificant % of people who only tune-in to have their amorphous feelings validated by Trump's schtick.

Outlets are doing a borderline traitorous disservice to the country by allowing Trump to spout bald-faced lies unchecked. Especially if he does it in a Presidential debate. Which he will.


yeah, WAPO had an amazingly (5.00 / 4) (#47)
by leap2 on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 01:59:25 PM EST

horrid opinion written by the "Editorial Board," for which they are getting reamed by commenters. There are almost 12,000 (!) comments as of this morning.

This should be a "gift" link, if you care to read what the Editorial Board has to say: "Opinion: America has two presidential candidates. Let's compare them."


and I'd say that (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by leap2 on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 02:02:57 PM EST

99.9% are doing the reaming, probably half of those cancelling, or letting expire, their subscriptions, because they have had it with both-sideserism and/or flat-out Trumpism. And looking for another news source, that is NOT TFNYT. Maybe The Guardian.


If Kamala gives a speech or interview (5.00 / 6) (#52)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 02:45:48 PM EST

they parse every word and phrase. Examine everything said and unsaid with microscope

When Trump gives a speech or interview they find the one or two complete sentences and talk about how he has "changed" to be more serious.

I really F-ing hate it. It's time to rise up.


Position Unknown (1.67 / 3) (#62)
by coast on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 01:09:43 PM EST

I think much of this is simply the fact that we don't know what Harris' policies are. Therefore when she does actually provide an interivew and divulges policy positions, then those positions are going to be reviewed thoroughly. You go to the Harris campaign website, at least the one I've seen,and there is no policy positions provided.

I think independents and those who do not want to vote for Trump are trying to figure out is Harris the ultra progressive that she was in the senate and in her previous presidential bid or is she more moderate. I feel like she is trying to take more moderate position in some areas, but at the same time she is still doubling down on policies that can certainly be categorized as far left.


Far left as categorized by who? (5.00 / 5) (#63)
by jondee on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 01:33:10 PM EST

Far left compared to the Repblicans still isn't "far left."


For (5.00 / 3) (#64)
by FlJoe on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 02:15:31 PM EST

the thousandth time, the average American does not ingest or digest much policy.

If it can't fit on a bumper sticker the media is loathe to cover it and the viewership is quickly bored even if they try.


When Hillary ran there was lots of policy (5.00 / 3) (#65)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 02:27:44 PM EST

When Warren ran there was enough policy to sink the Titanic.
He's right, no one cares about policy.

Do you seriously think people are voting for Trump based on his policies?
Beyond owning the left and hating brown people what would his policies be?

That's not what I'm talking about.
The media was obsessed with Bidens mental state for a year. Why don't they care about Trumps?
What do you think would happen to Harris is she gave a "Trump speech"
She would be crusified. And rightly so. An insane person should not be president.

And an insane presidential candidate should not be covered in a "balanced" way.


That said (5.00 / 2) (#66)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 02:35:51 PM EST

I agree she has been pushing some surprisingly leftish policies.

The stuff about 50,000 for small business and 25,000 for first time home buyers for example.

I don't think she is avoiding the question. She is a democrat. She was VP in an administration that passed more progressive legislation that anyone since FDR.

What I'm talking about is when the press says Trump wants to steal the election and become a dictator but Harris changed her mind on fracking.

Oh, and she can't do an interview alone.

That's what I'm talking about.


It's a bit like (5.00 / 1) (#67)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 02:40:04 PM EST

when they used to say Trump is a convicted felon who wants to illegally seize power but Joe Biden tried to forgive student loan debt.


New Deal-ish stuff (5.00 / 1) (#71)
by jondee on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 03:25:22 PM EST

that probably would've seemed reasonable to people in the Eisenhower era, when btw, the top marginal tax rate was 90%.

But that was before the Overton Window shifted so that anyone to the left of Mitt Romney gets smeared as a Leninist.

You have to just hope that even if people can't focus on policy, that enough of them have intact BS detectors so there won't be a repeat of 2016.


Pretty sure it won't be (none / 0) (#72)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 03:31:40 PM EST

But speaking of 2016 I ran across this. I don't recommend watching for long but take a look. It's Trump at CPAC in 2016.

It's stunning to see how much he has declined.

He speaking in complete sentences.

And he doesn't have a vu1va under his chin.


Oops (none / 0) (#73)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 03:32:13 PM EST

I'm getting a little bit (none / 0) (#74)
by jondee on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 03:50:40 PM EST

of one of those. Mine looks more like a Sea Iguana. A very distinguished Sea Iguana.

Decline or no decline, he was always a huckster with all the substance of cotton candy.


Huckster, sure (5.00 / 1) (#76)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 04:12:34 PM EST

But watching him you can actually imagine someone (not me but someone) voting for him.

It's very different now.

It's interesting how he was NOT mugging and making faces. That seems to have evolved as he learned what entertained them.


Just This Afternoon (5.00 / 2) (#78)
by RickyJim on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 05:42:11 PM EST

I had lunch with a Trump voter. These were the points he made:

Harris couldn't go toe to toe with Putin and Xi. They would clobber her.
She would tax stock capital gains even if you haven't sold the stock.
Democratic tolerance of looting and arson during protests is worse than Republican tolerance of Jan. 6 violence.
Trump is less supportive of the Ukraine than Harris. Why should we care about the Ukraine? He agreed that Trump probably would continue to support whatever Netanyahu does.

I didn't argue much but said that I wouldn't vote for Trump because of crookedness, craziness and unpredictability.


No offense (5.00 / 1) (#79)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 05:50:08 PM EST

But I think your friend is kind of F'ed up.

They are either ignorant or cruel. I stopped caring which long ago,


But I know people who (none / 0) (#80)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 05:52:27 PM EST

If I talked to them, would say the same. Or worse.

I don't talk to them. Not a choice for everyone I guess.


: I talked to a Trumper/flat earther (5.00 / 1) (#81)
by jondee on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 07:54:14 PM EST

the other day. I wish I was joking.
The say not all Trumpers are Flerfs (what they call flat earthers online) but all Flerfs are Trumpers. Go figure.

I would (5.00 / 1) (#83)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 05, 2024 at 08:27:51 AM EST

agree that the home buyer issue is leftish but the small business tax plan sounds straight out of the Bill Clinton/Larry Summers playbook.


Democracy (5.00 / 2) (#75)
by KeysDan on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 03:57:49 PM EST

and fascism are the foundational policy choices of this election. This is not a choice, for example, between two tax policies---should the present corporate tax rate of 21 percent be maintained or should it be increased to 23 percent. The choice is between Trump who offers chaos and corruption and Harris who offers good government and competence. The choice is between a convicted felon and a distinguished public servant. The choice is between unhinged and sane.


Harris/Walz campaign site now (5.00 / 1) (#104)
by Towanda on Sun Sep 08, 2024 at 11:52:13 PM EST

has a policy page Drop downs, lots of detail. It takes a while to do that, and expectations to have detailed policies right away were ridiculous.


Someone needs to make (none / 0) (#49)
by jondee on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 02:24:28 PM EST

a hard-hitting movie about the behind-the-scenes process involved in how some of these underqualified people manage to worm into positions writing op-eds at supposed reputable outlets like the WAPO.

A couple of weeks ago, they featured a young woman with no background in economics and I believe a BA degree, completely trashing Harris's economic proposals like she was John Kenneth Gailbraith. Wtf.


I wish someone who could (5.00 / 2) (#50)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 02:39:38 PM EST

would start a progressive boycott of WaPo and the NYTs.

Just stop buying it. Stop giving them clicks. Let them see if they survive on Trump supporters.
Remind them who has kept the lights on all three years

Im already in active boycott. Join me.


I have (5.00 / 2) (#53)
by jondee on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 02:49:05 PM EST

and no f*cking Teslas ever. Or anything even peripherally connected to the Muskrat. F*ck him and the horse he rode in on. Not to put too fine a point on it.


His head should (none / 0) (#54)
by jondee on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 03:06:09 PM EST

grow in the ground like a turnip.


Check this out (5.00 / 1) (#55)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 03:31:01 PM EST

He posted an AI image of Kamala in communist red with this caption

Can you believe she wears that outfit!?

That's is seriously vile.

fortunately X gave him a slew of pretty hilarious responses

But still. Seriously vile.


: Yeah, the same idiot savant (none / 0) (#57)
by jondee on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 05:53:10 PM EST

who suggested that the Texas mass shooting was a psyop and that (95 year old) 'Soros' was intent on destroying the U.S.
I wouldn't put anything past him.

Damn (none / 0) (#51)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 02:41:09 PM EST

all THESE years


Don't make a federal case out of it! (5.00 / 3) (#56)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 04:40:47 PM EST

Judge Rejects Trump's Attempt to Move Case
September 3, 2024 at 5:37 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard Leave a Comment
For a second time, a judge has rejected Donald Trump's attempt to transfer his New York criminal case from state court to federal court.
The decision removes a hurdle for Trump's scheduled September 18 sentencing.

: My comments on this development (5.00 / 1) (#59)
by Peter G on Tue Sep 03, 2024 at 07:16:21 PM EST

are at #58 on this thread.

Garland and others from the DOJ (5.00 / 1) (#60)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 12:58:51 PM EST

are doing a presentation about threats to election workers.

This is good. It's important to let MAGA know they won't get away with it.

That's totally the subtext.

PBS (none / 0) (#61)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 01:05:13 PM EST

Garland announces actions to combat Russia's alleged election disinformation efforts

This (5.00 / 1) (#84)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 05, 2024 at 08:31:18 AM EST

really has maga shook I guess because the names of the Russian disinfo agents has either been figured out or named and they are mostly big maga influencers.

interesting also is that the Trump campaign is on complete lockdown. So I am guessing that this is going to spread beyond the named 4 influencers.

I feel like screaming finally after 10 years of Russian interference/propaganda in our elections it is getting through some awfully thick skulls.


Lockdown (5.00 / 1) (#85)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 05, 2024 at 09:11:34 AM EST

Trump Campaign Warns Staff Not to Talk to News Media
September 5, 2024 at 9:31 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 39 Comments
Donald Trump's campaign sent an email out to its entire staff warning them not to communicate with the press in the next two months before the presidential election in November, NBC News reports.
From the memo: "You should not be independently speaking or communicating with any members of the press--on or off the record."

The talk is there will be more arrests coming.
And it's thought that the two Americans running it were not charged because they are cooperating.
That could be very interesting


That is the two IN America (5.00 / 1) (#86)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 05, 2024 at 09:12:45 AM EST

Not totally sure they are Americans.


Did not (none / 0) (#87)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 05, 2024 at 09:33:28 AM EST

realize the campaign was on lockdown for 2 months. Wow. Has that ever happened before? Not that I ever remember. I had thought it was just currently on lockdown.

They were paying Tim Pool 400K a month for 2 podcasts a week. These influencers either knew what was going on or they are total idiots. And I'm not ruling out total idiot on the part of Pool.


: Some apparently did not know (none / 0) (#88)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 05, 2024 at 09:41:19 AM EST

as I understand some who have less corrupted reputations who were attracted by big pay days were not aware who they were working for
Others were.

If these news networks had any real (none / 0) (#91)
by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 05, 2024 at 05:23:33 PM EST

cojones, they would, based on this information, stop covering or mentioning the Orange moron or his campaign completely. Complete radio silence. Don't mention his name, don't report on any campaign activities or appearances. Don't even acknowledge that he even exists.


It should be news (5.00 / 1) (#92)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 05, 2024 at 05:32:19 PM EST

that he has not mentioned it. Not a word. Any normal person would be denouncing the effort.


: If they were supporting Harris (none / 0) (#93)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 05, 2024 at 05:53:51 PM EST

how many times a day do you think she would be asked to denounce it
I could be wrong but I don't think anyone has asked

Your best nightmare come to life... (5.00 / 4) (#82)
by desertswine on Wed Sep 04, 2024 at 08:48:26 PM EST

Trumpy Trout

The Great Wave (5.00 / 4) (#99)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 07, 2024 at 08:03:01 PM EST

is on public display just in time for the election

What a coinkydink... (5.00 / 3) (#100)
by desertswine on Sun Sep 08, 2024 at 03:14:50 PM EST

I just got this book not long ago. What a beautiful and fascinating image. It shows a small fascist craft being swamped by democracy.


As a person you imagines himself (none / 0) (#101)
by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 08, 2024 at 03:42:45 PM EST

"oberservant" especially when it comes to visual art I'm embarrassed to admit I only recently realized Mt Fuji is in that image.

I guess I always saw that bump as another wave which seems silly now that I've seen it as a mountain.

It was always about the wave for me.
Then I read about it someplace


: Fun fact. (5.00 / 6) (#102)
by Chuck0 on Sun Sep 08, 2024 at 04:38:47 PM EST

Sort of unrelated. Just toot'n my own horn.
I have actually climbed Mt. Fuji. Twice.

: Did you ever see (5.00 / 1) (#103)
by jondee on Sun Sep 08, 2024 at 06:59:02 PM EST

The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife?

I wish bobbleheads would stop (none / 0) (#31)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 04:46:03 PM EST

saying the Trump campaign broke the rules at Arlington National Cemetery

They broke the law.
I wish someone important would say this.

Who would prosecute such a thing?

I have not seen any reliable info (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by Peter G on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 05:35:24 PM EST

as to how the regulation prohibiting campaign activities in the cemetery is to be enforced. So, it may be that they only broke a rule and did not commit a punishable offense. Other than man-handling the cemetery official who tried to stop them, of course; that could be a simple assault of a federal officer, which is a misdemeanor crime by whomever it was who laid hands on her, or directed that person to do so.


AXIOS (none / 0) (#34)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 05:47:14 PM EST

Photography is generally allowed, and photos taken by visitors do not require a release, per the cemetery's use policy.
Yes, but: There are more strict guidelines -- mandated in part by federal law -- for members of the media or commercial or political filming.
"Filming or photographing will not be permitted if it conveys the impression that cemetery officials or any visitor or family member is endorsing any product, service or organization," an official media policy memo reads.
It continues, "Additionally, ANC will not authorize any filming for partisan, political or fundraising purposes," citing the Hatch Act, which governs how federal employees can weigh in on political activities.
The memo specifically cites 32 CFR 553, which states, among other guidelines, that "Memorial services and ceremonies at Army National Military Cemeteries will not include partisan political activities."

If a Democrat did it, it would be a kaw


I saw a photo I had not seen (none / 0) (#35)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 05:49:21 PM EST

Or maybe I did not notice

But the attractive young blonde woman standing next to Trump is doing that white power hand signal.

I'll look for it


This one... (none / 0) (#36)
by leap2 on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 06:36:00 PM EST

such execrable rotters


That is the image I was thinking of (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 09:03:57 PM EST

But I saw it on tv. She's not doing exactly what I thought on closer inspection.
Not sure what that signal means.


: Maybe it's a QAnon thing (none / 0) (#41)
by jondee on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 11:27:56 PM EST

wouldn't surprise me.

and the young woman next (none / 0) (#37)
by leap2 on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 06:37:09 PM EST

to her is making a sign, as well.


It's like the KKK (none / 0) (#38)
by jondee on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 06:44:35 PM EST

version of a gang sign.

Are they really that dumb?


: She's got one of those (none / 0) (#39)
by jondee on Sat Aug 31, 2024 at 08:27:37 PM EST

inscription tattoos, I shudder to think what that's all about.

The version of that picture that I saw (none / 0) (#42)
by Peter G on Sun Sep 01, 2024 at 11:59:58 AM EST

was not as narrowly cropped, and showed another woman in the line-up making the same handsignal: middle and ring fingers of the right hand folded back, index and pinkie fingers extended, thumb tucked, hand pointing upward (one palm forward, the other opposite). I cannot find a clear answer on the Internet to what that is supposed to signal. Pretty sure it is not support for the University of Texas sports teams ("hook-em horns"). With the thumb also extended it would be the American Sign Language sign for "I love you"; pretty sure that's not it either.


: It is (none / 0) (#43)
by BGinCA on Sun Sep 01, 2024 at 12:52:02 PM EST

also the gang sign of MS-13

Judge Chutkan has spoken (none / 0) (#89)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 05, 2024 at 04:27:36 PM EST

Briefs to be filed that will contain evidence not seen before (Pence testimony?)

Says the election is irrelevant

: Unflattering (none / 0) (#90)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 05, 2024 at 04:32:47 PM EST

Prosecutors in Trump election case get judge's OK to lay out fresh evidence in court filing

This court is not concerned with the electoral schedule," the judge said. At another point, she suggested that the defense was trying to delay the case because of the forthcoming election, cautioning, "That's not going to be a factor I consider at all."
By day's end, she permitted prosecutors to file by Sept. 26 a legal brief that could include fresh details about Trump's failed efforts to cling to power four years ago. The brief is meant to defend a revised, and stripped-down, Trump indictment that special counsel Jack Smith's team filed last week to comply with the Supreme Court's immunity opinion. The filing is expected to include detailed allegations from the investigation, said Thomas Windom, a member of Smith's team.

Judge Merchan delays sentencing (none / 0) (#94)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 06, 2024 at 12:09:14 PM EST

To November 26

How it (none / 0) (#95)
by KeysDan on Fri Sep 06, 2024 at 02:58:46 PM EST

cuts is unknowable. However, in my view this is the best course. A sentence at this time would be appealed and Trump would not be behind bars in any case. A delay suggests to me that the judge is seriously contemplating jail time.

Also, he would have probably appreciated the media attention and his victimhood; he revels in anything that takes the spotlight away from Vice President Harris. I think he even liked the Arlington Cemetery debacle for that reason.


Completely agree (none / 0) (#96)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 06, 2024 at 03:16:34 PM EST

it's entirely possible it would have given Trump a boost. Why risk it. It can all happen after the election.

And I agree he is considering jail time. Including for contempt. Which would not be appealable (if that's a word), right.

Do not pass go. Go directly to jail.


: Any criminal verdict and/or sentence, (5.00 / 2) (#98)
by Peter G on Fri Sep 06, 2024 at 09:26:06 PM EST

including one for criminal contempt, is most definitely appealable. But so what? An appeal does not entitle a criminal defendant to a stay of execution of the sentence; only if bail pending appeal is granted, which it usually isn't. And criminal appeals rarely win.

The (none / 0) (#97)
by FlJoe on Fri Sep 06, 2024 at 03:21:43 PM EST

justice system has passed the "please do not to feed the troll" point.


I am so tired (none / 0) (#105)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 09, 2024 at 08:44:37 AM EST

of hearing and reading about what a great debater Trump is.

This is ridiculous.

He mopped the floor with a stage full of spineless republicans because they were afraid of him. And more importantly afraid of his voters.

He won the debate with Biden because Biden lost it. Literally.

I really hope he tries physically intimidating Kamala like he did Hillary.. Pretty sure it won't go well.

I think Kamala is going to gut Trump.
I'm really looking forward to it.

Frankly (none / 0) (#106)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 09, 2024 at 09:15:00 AM EST

I am glad they are saying he is a great debater because frankly he isn't unless you think spewing a firehouse of lies is debating great. Setting high standards for Trump is actually a good thing because he normally has the lowest standards humanly possible like if he doesn't fall over and drool he wins.


: If the "moderators" (none / 0) (#107)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 09, 2024 at 09:40:42 AM EST

don't bring up his crazy threats of the last few days against everybody be including Kamala donors they are going to be buried in sh!t
Her people have said she expects to go "off script"
I'm pretty sure that means if they don't she will.

: And really (none / 0) (#108)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 09, 2024 at 09:44:35 AM EST

Noone is setting high standards for him.
They are just saying he will roll over everyone like he always does and no one will stop him.
I can't wait.

If reporting can be believed (none / 0) (#109)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 10, 2024 at 05:06:01 PM EST

The moderators tonight have made suggestions they do not plan to sit quietly and let Trump tell outrageous lies.

I really hope they mean that.

The suggestion is they would not be CNN.

I am more nervous (5.00 / 4) (#110)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 10, 2024 at 05:44:31 PM EST

than I expected to be


He's been trying to get slack (none / 0) (#111)
by jondee on Tue Sep 10, 2024 at 06:52:01 PM EST

from them by starting the tantrum early and preemptively accusing them of being of being biased against him.


: Her father was a Marxist (5.00 / 4) (#112)
by jondee on Tue Sep 10, 2024 at 08:19:10 PM EST

what a low life.
She should mention Trump's father being arrested at Klan Rally and refusing to rent to black people.