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Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Criminal Record

By Jeralyn, Section Duke Lacrosse
Posted on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:06:59 AM EST
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There's been a lot of complaining about why the police waited two days to get a search warrant in the Duke lacrosse player incident in which an stripper-dancer claims she was brutally raped by three players. The police were trying to evaluate her claim, but there was this to take into consideration:

According to a 2002 police report, the woman, currently a 27-year-old student at North Carolina Central University, gave a taxi driver a lap dance at a Durham strip club. Subsequently, according to the report, she stole the man's car and led deputies on a high-speed chase that ended in Wake County.

Apparently, the deputy thought the chase was over when the woman turned down a dead-end road near Brier Creek, but instead she tried to run over him, according to the police report. Additional information notes that her blood-alcohol level registered at more than twice the legal limit.

Defense lawyer Joe Cheshire confirms the 911 caller was the other dancer at the party. It couldn't be anyone else as as I'm concerned.

"We're absolutely positive the caller was not the accuser, but the other young lady there," Cheshire said.

Cheshire said witnesses have talked to the woman and a comparison of audio tapes proves the caller was the second dancer at the party, but Durham police say they do not know who called.

[Hat tip to commenter IMHO .]

This is a continuation of earlier posts, and a new thread for comments on the case, as the last one is almost at 100, our usual limit.

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    Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Criminal Record | 72 comments (72 topical)
    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#1)
    by Lis Riba on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:35:48 AM EST
    Speaking of prior history, from the News Observer:
    On the same day Duke University lacrosse player Collin H. Finnerty was ordered to provide DNA samples in a rape investigation, he was in Washington to face charges that he assaulted a man last fall.

    Court records show that Finnerty, 19, and two friends were arrested early Nov. 5. Finnerty was charged with simple assault.

    A man told a police officer who was driving by The Georgetown Inn on Wisconsin Avenue about 2:30 a.m. Nov. 5 that Finnerty and his co-defendants assaulted him, court documents said.

    The man said he was minding his own business when the three men started picking on him. The man told them to stop "calling him gay and ... derogatory names." Then they attacked him, he said, "busting his lip and bruising his chin," court records say.

    The accuser was not anyone that Finnerty knew, said his attorney, Steven J. McCool of Washington...
    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:47:21 AM EST
    The accuser named her assailants as Matt, Adam and Bret. Adam may have been an alias for Dan. Why is Colin Finnerty's history relevant to anything?

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#3)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:52:12 AM EST
    Why is he being ordered to provide DNA samples?

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#4)
    by glanton on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:52:47 AM EST
    As an alumnus of UNC-Chapel Hill and frequenter of Durham and Duke's campus, I have followed this story with interest. There was an Outside the Lines of ESPN a few nights ago where Bob ley explored this situation as a trope for the very incendiary relationship between privileged Duke U and the city in which it is situated. TL, citizens of Durham are indeed
    complaining about why the police waited two days to get a search warrant in the Duke lacrosse player incident
    Now, I believe in justice for everyone as strongly as you do, and it would be a heck of a stretch to call me a lawyer basher, when on this very site I have said many times that lawyers in many ways represent our last line of defense against fascism. But the complaints you mention are very much couched in reality. You can spin it however you like, but the unadulterated truth is that if the accused had been African American student-atheletes at North Carolina Central, and the alleged victims a couple of white Dukie coeds, there would have been about as much lag time in getting a search warrant as there are pink lions in the wild. Whether the LaCrosse players are guilty, I have no idea. But I do hate the fact that rape cases proclaim open season on the accuser's past. I don't care if a rape victim has a criminal record or not. I don't care how many men a rape victim has slept with. None of this matters. It is not the accuser who should be investigated, but the accused, and that investigation ought to be transparent, color-blond, class-blind, and all those other mythical qualities that we say we have in Uhmerrikahh but know we don't. Money and privilege will get you out of anything, no matter how heinous, in this country. That is a sad truism that will endure whether these Lacrosse players did it or not.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#5)
    by glanton on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:58:03 AM EST
    Ahhh, the Freudian slip. "color-blond" should of course read "color-blind" Needless to say, our "justice" system is already color-blond enough as it is.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:58:12 AM EST
    Why would her criminal record be relevant in getting a search warrant? Sure...it may be relevant later, but that should have no bearing on the immediate search warrant. Criminals get raped too...

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:08:19 PM EST
    And on the flip side...this could show a history of the accuser ripping off her clients. No reason to delay a search warrant, but certainly a reason to question the validity of her claims. It lends creedence to the claims of the accused that she attempted to take their money and run. She may be telling the truth, but this history will surely raise doubts...right or wrong.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#8)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:14:24 PM EST
    Dave, Agreed. Her past may come up in court but there was no justification to delay the investigation of a violent sexual crime for two days because of the accusers past. Every CSI knows that the longer you wait, the more contaminated the crime scene becomes.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#9)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:24:15 PM EST
    This could explain some of the delay. City manager: Scanty info delayed search in rape case
    It took two days before police searched the house where a woman said she was raped by Duke University lacrosse players because 31 hours passed before she was able to provide details about what happened, the city manager says. The woman reported within an hour that she had been raped at a March 13 lacrosse team party, according to police. But she couldn't provide a lengthy interview until later, City Manager Patrick Baker said. He told the Durham City Council Thursday that emotional and physical trauma can often delay a witness's ability to tell police what happened. "The basic rule of thumb is that we work at the complaining witness's timetable," he said.


    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#10)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:28:14 PM EST
    The accuser had worked for an escort company for two months, doing one-on-one dates about three times a week. [snip] This was the first time she had been hired to dance provocatively for a group, she said.
    A hooker cries rape and the police don't scramble to investigate the scene immediately. While her occupation shouldn't affect how the police respond to her accusations, it's hardly suprising if it did.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:36:44 PM EST
    Gee, suo. I don't know what happened. Usually they get Nuns from the local Convent to do those gigs. It's the damnedest thing. Believe it or not, working girls in the employ of escort services can be raped.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#12)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:37:05 PM EST
    "The basic rule of thumb is that we work at the complaining witness's timetable," he said.
    Unless, of course, the complaining witness is white and those accused are black, then we work at a much quicker timetable.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:24:55 PM EST
    That's it, i'm done. Apparently I am too liberal for this left-oriented site. I just can't take the veiled and sometimes obvious sexism and racism that has appeared from so many in response to this story. Don't even think of believing her she's a stripper/whore. she has a criminal record. Why should one of the lacrosse player's records matter? If you ever want to wonder why there are so many unreported rapes in this country...this discussion has demonstrated why. With any accusation without the immediate release of blatant evidence there is a chance that someone involved is lying. Deciding that it must be the woman because she isn't as clean cut on the surface as one of the Duke students is ridiculous. One has to hope that any good DA would not let something like this hang out there if they didn't think there was the very real possibility that a crime occurred. I understand people are concerned that this, if untrue, has already negatively affected the lives of the students involved. However, if the students, and the school, and handled this differently (and had handled past incidents differently), this would not have risen to the level it has. If it proves to be an untrue accusation, they still retain some responsibility for the manner in which it played out. If the DNA evidence shows that she isn't lying. I hope half of you (since half of the people here still seem to actually be liberals and do not assume the woman must be lying) regret the comments you've made. If it is proven untrue, I won't feel guilty. I haven't impugned the honor of the players, I haven't assumed anyone was guilty, I've just wanted to see what the evidence says before calling anyone a liar or a whore.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:25:01 PM EST
    Its quite odd, how things went so smoothly when the media, and internet sources put out the bad past of these boys, and now that we take a look at the accuser, then everyone seems to want to say that it does not matter, or now that we are trying to blame the victim.... Personally, I think with these rape cases we risk 2 things that none of us want to acknowledge: 1) Not acknowledging that their are a significant amount of false rape allegations out there. 2) That we risk losing the "innocent until proven guilty" Nothing has been proven in the case just yet, but I see the eagerness of both sides to darken the images of the accuser and the accused. We say "innocent until proven guilty" but I really dont think we mean it. And for those out there that say that the accusers past means nothing, actually dont know exactly how important it is for a person who is accused of rape or murder needs to be able to bring in evidence that can at least make their case. This same issue came up with the Kobe Case. People need to be able to defend themselves in a court of law.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#15)
    by Peaches on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:52:51 PM EST
    Sup,
    Not acknowledging that their are a significant amount of false rape allegations out there.
    What is significant? You want to provide a link or a source with that statment. No one has said it has never happened, but tell me exactly how you arrive at this statement.
    We say "innocent until proven guilty" but I really dont think we mean it.
    Give me a break. Is anyone serving time for this, yet. Don't you worry, sup, if anyone is charged, they'll get their day in court. We still have some semblance of a court system here, expecially for privileged white kids at prestigious universities. They'll get their private lawyers, and most likely noone is going to be convicted of any crime so you can stop fretting over the poor harm done to these innocent boys.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#16)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:58:58 PM EST
    PHD, you had me until the last sentance. She worked for a escort service doing one-on-one "dates" for several months. She is, or was, in fact, a whore. (As you say. I don't think I've ever actually written that word before.)

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 02:49:47 PM EST
    I totally agree with PHD. I have lost a lot of respect for TalkLeft over how this story has been covered. I get it that this is a defense attorney's site, but there seems to be a very nasty tone to how the victim is getting talked about. It is funny because TalkLeft always sides with the accused (though not usually with such a weird classist tone to it), and I am usually in total agreeance with her. It made me wonder why this case I feel so different. I guess what makes me a liberal is that I tend to side with the underdog, with those in our society who don't have all the levers of power at their disposal. So it is hard for me to get up a lot of sympathy for these students. My husband just finished his PhD at Duke, and, while there are obviously numerous exceptions, the undergrads there are the most over-privileged, entitled brats I have ever encountered in my life (in the five college towns I have lived in). If these boys get found not guilty, (which is the likely outcome whether they did it or not what with them all having high-priced defense attorneys), they will continue in their life of privilege, so I am not going to waste my time worrying about them. I am also not going to worry about whether Duke will get a good enough incoming class this year, or how this will effect the prestige of the degrees of the current students. I will worry about a single mother who was assaulted while trying to provide for her family and pay her way through school.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 03:39:35 PM EST
    Before this gets too far afield with personal bias, don't lose sight of why this criminal history is significant. It shows that the victim may have serious credibility issues. As a young Public Defender in Chicago, I spent 18 mos. in a sex assault courtroom, defending over a thousand cases at bond and preliminary hearings. While these are some of the worst crimes you will find, there are a significant number of false accusations. This is especially true in the escort business. Since it is illegal, both escorts and clients are often the victims of crime, because the victim can't exactly go to the law for justice. This lends itself to false accusations and unfortunately the manipulation of our system to settle scores. Sometimes escorts get raped, but sometimes they rip off their clients. Sometimes clients have their money or belongings stolen, but sometimes they rip off the escorts or exceed the "terms of thhe contract" and refuse to pay. Statistics aren't available because only God knows what really happened. But trust me, all of these thing do happen and will continue to happen as long as we keep this business illegal. In the Duke case, if the victim has previuosly taken the law into her own hands or otherwise manipulated the system to settle a dispute, the authorities would not be doing their jobs if they didn't take it into account and investigate further before seeking a warrant or making a charging decision. And if they didn't get a statement for 31 hours, that too would cause delay and questions about the victims veracity. Many of the commenters want to make assumptions based on the status of the people involved. But a good investigator remains open to all possibilities, as we should do with this case. Maybe the victim was raped. Maybe she's lying. Maybe it's both. That's why we have a presumption of innocence. The only thing that I am sure about is that none of us has enough information to know what happened, and we probably never will. Our system works pretty well, so lets wait to see what happens rather than making pronouncements about the case, the system, or even this website.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 04:28:06 PM EST
    A 'bad' girl can still be raped! Even a prostitute can be raped. Even if the gal was 'bad' and had previously stolen a car, she can still be raped... especially if she and the athletes were all drunk and stoned. In the old days, it was common to say that women who accused men of rape were 'asking for it' or were 'loose women' so their accusations couldn't be taken seriously. Question is: Can the womens' accounts be proven to be true, or not. Let's not dismiss their accusations just because they have done 'bad' (even very very bad) things.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 05:17:06 PM EST
    Of course a dancer, escort or stripper can be raped. The defense lawyers never say otherwise. Their argument is that there was a dustup over the money ( they haven't said yet whether it was physical or merely verbal) because the women danced for only a few minutes and left with the players' $800. The same thing could have happened had she been a house painter or lawn cutter who offered to paint the house or cut the lawn, got paid up front and then quit before finishing the job.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 05:18:20 PM EST
    MS, I have not seen anyone on this website claim that just because the girl, may be a "bad girl" that she deserved whatever may or may not of happened to her. But when people say that you are "blaming the victim", when you look at the accusers past, that is just not right. Its not wrong to look at everyones past. But already we see many people, already making the accuser out to be a victim. Right now she is an alledged victim. So how can we be blaming the victim, when she has not even gotten that status as of yet? Ya know? It does mean that she does not deserve to recieve justice, but we must always maintain the balance in our justice system. Or we are gonna be in big trouble

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 05:33:48 PM EST
    TL, You wrote: "The same thing could have happened had she been a house painter or lawn cutter who offered to paint the house or cut the lawn, got paid up front and then quit before finishing the job." The analogy is missing an important element, which is the suggestion that a broom might be used as a sex toy. If I made such a proposition to a woman mowing my lawn, I wouldn't be at all surprised if she were slow to issue me a refund.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 05:49:44 PM EST
    There is no suggestion a broom was used. The allegation is that one student made an offensive comment about using a broom while they were dancing before they left the house.
    According to Nifong, one of the players called out, "Did you bring any sex toys?" When the women answered no, a man said, "That's OK, we'll just use a broom." Frightened, the strippers ran outside to their car. One of the men followed and coaxed one of the women to come back in. When she did, she told police, she was forced into a bathroom and held down while three men forced her to have sex. According to Nifong, she claimed that the men robbed her and that she broke off several fake fingernails clawing one of her attackers.
    The homeowner could have made an offensive comment to the painter or lawn person about the job being done poorly so far which caused the laborer to leave with the money before finishing the job. Instead of a broom handle, the comment might have involved a paintbrush or a rake.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:29:39 PM EST
    PHD, all I can say is you wouldn't have lasted very long in the trenches if a little rough talk puts you off. Perhaps with such delicate sensibilities, you're best suited to academia. My oldest Son is working with mostly paranoid schizophrenics in NYC trying to get them off the streets and out of homeless shelters into their own places and living some degree of an independent, productive life rather than drink their checks up. He wins some. He loses some. Some throw up on his shirt first thing Monday morning, but when they're drunk as a skunk at 9:30AM and 260 pounds, what are ya gonna do? You deal with it. Now what do ya think the people who not only have philosophical disagreements with you, but actively, vehemently, disagree with you and aren't at all shy about registering their displeasure with you are gonna be like to deal with?

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#25)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:33:14 PM EST
    TalkLeft posted
    There is no suggestion a broom was used.
    Do you mean there is no suggestion that a broom was actually shoved up the dancers, or that there was no suggestion a broom was used during the threat? (according to the search warrant)
    "one male stated to the women, 'I'm gonna shove this up you,' while holding a broomstick up in the air so they could see it.
    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 06:40:08 PM EST
    TL, You wrote: "The homeowner could have made an offensive comment to the painter or lawn person about the job being done poorly so far which caused the laborer to leave with the money before finishing the job. Instead of a broom handle, the comment might have involved a paintbrush or a rake." That's not really much better. First of all, there really is nothing analogous to the "job being done poorly so far" in our dancer story. Why put it in? Secondly, there really is no good reason for having the homeowner threaten the employees with tools that match their job description. It's not like dancers and brooms go together. But most importantly, you've totally stripped from your analogy the entire climate of intimidation that creates empathy for the dancers. That's a big miss.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#27)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:07:36 PM EST
    deleted for links to explicit material

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#29)
    by chew2 on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:32:24 PM EST
    Just like a dispute over fees with a house painter? Now you're really reaching. If a homeowner got in a dispute with a lady painter, he wouldn't be drunk, and she wouldn't have bruising in the vaginal and anal areas. There were 30 to 40 strapping drunken athletes at the party. If they wanted their money back they could have just taken it. Legally I think it would still be robbery. But what's key to this situation is that these drunken guys were seeking sexual titilation and some probably more extensive sexual experiences (lap dances or other sexual touching) or sexual services (oral or other sex). The dancers refused to continue dancing after 3 minutes or 20 minutes of a 2 hour booking depending on who you believe. These guys understandably would be very pissed off and feeling ripped off. So I have to ask, what happens when a group of drunken guys' sexual urges are frustrated? This was not a house painting situation. One plausible scenario is some of them wanted to punish the dancer for attempting to "rip them off" and did so by raping her and taking her money. The other is that they just roughed her up and took her money back. But if so, why the vaginal and anal brusing? Many of the team members were allededly very angry. Was this because they didn't get their money back, or was it because they got their money back, but were still sexually frustrated. If it was the former, why would the alleged victim fabricate a rape story if she had gotten her money. One question I have is what happened to the other dancer? Did they take her money too or did she keep it. Did she even return to the party when alleged victim did. So far there is no evidence that she is corroborating the victim's story. Another question I have is what did those guys expect in the way of services. Not all strippers provide sexual services, but some do. Some guys are content to ogle the dancers, but others want more. There are genres of extreme porn about gang bangs and simultaneous double penetration. Did some hope for such a show, and did three of them do so in the bathroom?

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#30)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:55:10 PM EST
    "The Shocker" poster If the DNA evidence draws a blank, could "The Shocker" poster be used as evidence of a potential cause of the alleged victims injuries? From the search warrant:
    Medical records and interviews that were obtained by a subpoena revealed that the vicitm had signs, symptoms and injuries consistent with being raped and sexually assaulted vaginally and anally.
    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 04:55:36 AM EST
    Has anyone taken credit yet for the broom statement or the cotton shirt statement? No? I guess they're probably hoping to see if they can't figure some way out of that.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 06:52:22 AM EST
    Has anyone taken credit yet for the broom statement or the cotton shirt statement? No? I guess they're probably hoping to see if they can't figure some way out of that.
    The broom statement and the cotton shirt statement are vile, but it does not make anyone a rapist. Just like stealing cars, or being a stripper does not make the woman a liar about rape.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#33)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 07:06:09 AM EST
    If the players, "man for man," deny hearing the broomstick threat their credibilty goes down the crapper. No one is going to believe the women made that up.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 07:59:06 AM EST
    Talkleft wrote: "[The Defense lawyers' for the players] argument is that there was a dustup over the money ( they haven't said yet whether it was physical or merely verbal) because the women danced for only a few minutes and left with the players' $800." The term "players' money" is an amusing one, suggesting that the money did not become the women's money upon its transfer into their purses. But of course, it did. This is true whenever a business insists upon being paid up front. So the money should be more properly described as "money that was formerly the players' money." Even if the "women" owed the "boys" a refund, or a partial refund of some kind, for work not performed, they had no obligation whatsoever to return the particular bills they had in their purse to the boys. Those bills were their's by law.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 08:43:41 AM EST
    SuperMike, You wrote: "The broom statement and the cotton shirt statement are vile, but it does not make anyone a rapist." No, but interestingly the broom statement could conceivably make someone who was otherwise not an aider and abetterer.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 08:56:59 AM EST
    Isn't it a crime to threaten to attack someone with a broomstick?

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#37)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 09:54:06 AM EST
    Jesurgislac, I like your analogy. If I might add a bit to it - as the painters, fearing for their safety, flee the premises, the owner or his guests reach into at least one of their pockets, purses or wallets and take the money they had been paid. Now, the owner has a lot more to justify than that he's entitled to "his" money back because the housepainters didn't finish the job, he also has to justify a robbery. TalkLeft seems to be taking a preemptive strike at a robbery charge in her characterization of the defense attorney's statements she is paraphrasing.
    Attorney Joe Cheshire, who is representing one of the lacrosse captains, said members of the highly ranked lacrosse team hired two dancers for a party on March 13 and paid the women $800 for their services, but that they did not provide the services they promised. "These two girls were paid a tremendous amount of money to dance for two hours," Cheshire said. "We can show, and will show if we have to, that they danced for only three minutes and decided to take all that money with them."
    In my ever so humble opinion, Cheshire stated the money part of this fairly though he, of course, didn't burden us with he details of the women's decision to leave before the two hours was up. Here's TalkLeft's characterization of the defense attorney's argument: (emphasis is mine, not TalkLeft's)
    Of course a dancer, escort or stripper can be raped. The defense lawyers never say otherwise. Their argument is that there was a dustup over the money ( they haven't said yet whether it was physical or merely verbal) because the women danced for only a few minutes and left with the players' $800.


    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#38)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 09:55:31 AM EST
    I've been at a drunken parties with strippers/hookers a time or two over the years. While the comment about the broomstick, if true, could well have been a threat, it could also well have been one of dozens and dozens of comments made by the guys who's only intent was to make the other guys laugh. If this party was anything like the parties w/strippers I've been to, it was complete chaos. Utter mayhem. Pandemonium. 30+ drunk guys in every room of the house yelling stuff at the girls, yelling stuff at each other, running around, chugging beers, shooting pool, wrassling with each other over the best chairs, burning pizzas, making fun of each other, making fun of the girls, and generally being the rowdy miscreants drunk college guys are. In this type of situation, all sorts of things are said, and (mostly) all with the main intent to make each other laugh. Additionally, with all that going on, most people are reasonably aware of what they said and they did, but may have little awarness of what many of the others were saying or doing. Now, clearly, at some point the evening stopped being so much fun and, in fact, turned ugly. And if the broomstick comment was made at that time I would consider the comment serious - whether or not the guy who said it actually had any intentions of following through on it.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#39)
    by squeaky on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 10:05:44 AM EST
    Jesurgislac-This issue must be very loaded for you. Usually your comments are measured and you respond to commenters questions directly. I posed a question and you answered it with a non-sequitur. What's up with that? Unusual for you... more typical of the mentally challenged wingers who post here..... not that you are anywhere near that camp. I am surprised.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#40)
    by squeaky on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 10:14:53 AM EST
    SUO-
    it could also well have been one of dozens and dozens of comments made by the guys who's only intent was to make the other guys laugh.
    It does not make it any less a crime. In fact pleasing the other's of like mind by making threats is what can lead to a mob lynching and gang rape. My question is this: Is it illegal to threaten using a broomstick as a tool to rape? I thought it was. Intent is important but where is the line drawn with incendiary language and threats becoming a crime?

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 10:23:35 AM EST
    Dunno Squeaky. Probable depends on the situation - was it one of dozens of rapid-fire comments that were all mainly jokes? Or was it after things turned ugly and the commenter wasn't joking around any more? Was there an actual broomstick in the guy's hand when he said it? I imagine at some point it can be illegal.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 11:17:27 AM EST
    Squeaky, You wrote: "My question is this: Is it illegal to threaten using a broomstick as a tool to rape?" Where I come from you can't be found guilty of criminal threatening unless you "intentionally" or "knowingly" place another person in fear of imminent bodily injury. I would think only an idiot would not know that the broom comment would place the dancer in fear of imminent bodily injury. That said, I do think it likely that the person who said it was, in fact, an idiot.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#44)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 12:13:14 PM EST
    Jeruslagic, this is patently false.
    and it's known (medical evidence) that one of the dancers was raped.
    The nurse who conducted the rape exam said the medical evidence was "consistent" with sexual assault. That is not a finding she was raped. "Consistent with" is a highly subjective, and experts may and often do disagree about such a finding.. Death penalty convictions have been overturned where the phrase has been misconstrued as a "match" for something and used as a basis for conviction. Williamson v. Reynolds is one. Consistent with merely means it could have been -- it also could not have been. "Consistent with" is a deprecated term.
    For example, use of the term "consistent with" in describing hair and fiber comparisons has been severely criticized as implying a greater degree of certainty to a lay-jury than may be scientifically justifiable . Similar examples can be drawn from other forensic disciplines such as handwriting comparison and bite-mark analysis.


    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#45)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 12:19:14 PM EST
    TalkLeft posted
    Consistent with merely means it could have been -- it also could not have been.
    Thank you for the clarification.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#43)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 12:27:08 PM EST
    sarcastic unnamed one posted:
    Now, clearly, at some point the evening stopped being so much fun and, in fact, turned ugly. And if the broomstick comment was made at that time I would consider the comment serious - whether or not the guy who said it actually had any intentions of following through on it
    . Are you talking about when the evening stopped being "so much fun" for the players or "so much fun" for the women? It got ugly for the women "just moments" into their performance. Dancer gives details of ordeal
    Just moments after she and another exotic dancer started to perform, she said, men in the house started barking racial slurs. The two women, both black, stopped dancing. "We started to cry," she said. "We were so scared."
    from the seach warrant:
    The victim reported that they began to perform their routine inside of the residence. After a few minutes, the males watching them began to get excited and aggressive. One male stated to the women, 'I'm gonna shove this up you,' while holding a broomstick up in the air so they could see it.
    According to a defense attorney, that would have to have been less than three minutes into their dance. article containing defense arguments
    "These two girls were paid a tremendous amount of money to dance for two hours," Cheshire said. "We can show, and will show if we have to, that they danced for only three minutes and decided to take all that money with them."
    I wonder if there is a video tape of the women's performance? Might the tape include the "broomstick joke?"

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#28)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 12:29:36 PM EST
    OK. Reposting without the links. Duke Rape Case E-mail Shocker
    Agents also seized a poster described as "the shocker" from McFadyen's room
    Why was a poster seized? I don't know if this is the very poster seized from McFadyen's room, but if you google "shocker poster" you will find links to a poster of a hand gesture titled "The Shocker."

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#46)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 01:03:51 PM EST
    OK. Thanks.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#47)
    by glanton on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 01:29:36 PM EST
    Back on topic, it doesn't matter in the least whether the accuser stole a car in the past, turned tricks in the past, or stood on her head and belched the national anthem in the past. PhD writes:
    If the DNA evidence shows that she isn't lying. I hope half of you (since half of the people here still seem to actually be liberals and do not assume the woman must be lying) regret the comments you've made. If it is proven untrue, I won't feel guilty. I haven't impugned the honor of the players, I haven't assumed anyone was guilty
    And I couldn't agree more. Indeed, I would take it further and say that half the posters here should feel guilty whether or not the accused turns out to be innocent. The title of this very thread says it all.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#48)
    by Lora on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 08:47:47 PM EST
    I think the medical exam, if the description is accurate, is the best evidence so far. Hard to say something didn't happen with that evidence. Consensual just doesn't seem very likely (I'm not saying impossible, just not likely.) Because of this, I'm going out on a limb and say that I think she was raped, or at the very least, assaulted. If it's shown that she made the story up, then I'll be proven wrong. And I'm not saying any of the accused ARE guilty, I'm just saying I THINK they are and that's only my opinion.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#49)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 10:13:24 PM EST
    From an ESPN video clip: Attorney Fires Back at DA
    REPORTER: Joe Cheshire, (who represents co-captain Dave Evans and other players) said all the players have denied any type of assault, sexual or otherwise. Cheshire said a dispute over money may have led to some of the problems...
    CHESHIRE: "but not physical confrontation, but kind of argument about what they were supposed to do, or their dancing, or they got mad and then there was argument about, 'you stolen our money', 'you've done this,' then they left and all of this other stuff has happened. The girls thought the boys were disrespecting them - nothing racial that I've heard at all and they got mad"
    Someone should advise these players to not lie to their attorneys. At the very least, there was a physical altercation over the money. "Nothing racial that I've heard at all?" Turn on your telly or read the paper.Everyone else in Durham has heard it and believes Jason Bissey. I think Cheshire had to backdown on that claim.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 03:07:11 AM EST
    From Cheshire: "The girls thought the boys were disrespecting them - nothing racial that I've heard at all and they got mad" To a defense attorney the statement "Thank your Grandfather for my cotton shirt" is an attempt at reparations. To a defense attorney the statement, "sweetie, you can't leave", (said with the right hospitable intonation), is a request for an encore, akin to holding up a match at the end of a rock concert. To a defense attorney, the statement "I'm gonna shove this up you", viewed in the proper light, is ... um... little help here. IANAL.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#51)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 04:00:57 AM EST
    PHDinNYC4Dems wrote: "I hope half of you (since half of the people here still seem to actually be liberals and do not assume the woman must be lying) regret the comments you've made." I like your addition of an "I'm more liberal than you are" brag to the mix, because it brings up a particular confusion I experience here that, as the self-proclaimed most liberal, you might be able to help me with. My whole problem with the underlying concept of this website is that I don't find the analogy between leftwing politics and what trial lawyers do a compelling one. To me it's like trying to draw an analogy between "right and left" and "right and wrong." It's like squaring the circle. Defense attorneys have a simple enough job. They come up with models based on the assumption that their clients are innocent, and they lobby for the acceptance of those models, and they cash their checks. They can wear their politics on their sleeve while doing this, if they think it wins them favor. But the process itself is inherently apolitical. No? Doesn't this case show that? TL might as well be representing Richard Nixon as these Duke students. There's nothing "left-wing" about it!

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#52)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 04:25:27 AM EST
    To a defense attorney, the statement "I'm gonna shove this up you", viewed in the proper light, is ... um... little help here. IANAL.
    I am not a lawyer either, but from reading here I am learning how the game is played by defense attorneys. I'll take a stab at the broomstick comment: "What Nifong has neglected to tell the media is the boy whose actions are in question is a pre-med student who was merely offering the young lady a free pap smear."

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 05:40:46 AM EST
    "What Nifong has neglected to tell the media is the boy whose actions are in question is a pre-med student who was merely offering the young lady a free pap smear."
    LOL!

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#54)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 12:17:24 PM EST
    A certain statement made by defense lawyers, and earlier, the actions of the three lacrosse captains, argue heavily that no rape occurred. Early into the investigation, defense lawyers asserted that since no sexual contact occurred, there would be no match of items (impliedly, semen, hair, skin) taken from the complainant with DNA of any of the 46 team members. Such a statement effectively eliminates as a defense that there was sex, but that it was consensual. In a case of this sort--where a self-described escort (in most instances, a euphemism for prostitute) comes calling--consensual sex is a compelling defense, not a defense lightly tossed into the hamper. Condoms or not, the chance of no DNA matches occurring after a 30 minute bout of rape, assault, and sodomy, are slim and none. Defense counsel would not make such a statement unless sure of its accuracy. Despite repeated complaints in the media and in Durham that the team members have not cooperated in coming forward with information, the three team captains initially came forward and gave statements to the police investigators as to what occurred. More importantly, they offered to undergo lie detector testing, which was declined by the police. It is apparent that the statements given to the police were completely exculpatory of themselves and others at the party. No guilty party, and no party with guilty knowledge, volunteers to subject himself to a lie detector test, and in this case, three sought the test. Either no rape occurred, or the players and their lawyers are fools.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 12:54:16 PM EST
    Logic, you have it exactly right. And to answer your last alternative, Joe Cheshire, whom I know, is no fool. The DNA will come out negative. The issue will then be whether she had sex that night with another client before going to the party at 11:30. A subpoena of the escort service's records (including telephone) ought to identify that person, or at least his phone number. The DA has subpoena power at this juncture. If he were running a fair investigation, he would get the escort companies records once he learns the DNA came back negative. If charged, the players will be able to bring up any other dates that night as an exception to the rape shield statute to show someone other than the players were the cause of any sexual injuries. She told the Observer she went on three dates a week, all "one on one". Whether she had any other dates or sex that day or night will be relevant.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#56)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 01:01:46 PM EST
    Duke lacrosse players' attorneys step up defense
    A defense attorney representing one of the players said pictures taken at the party contradict the dancer's allegations, the Durham Herald-Sun reported Saturday. The photos show the woman attempting to re-enter the house with "a big smile on her face," attorney Bill Thomas told the paper. Thomas says time-stamped photos show the woman had bruises and cuts on her body when she arrived at the home -- before the rape allegedly occurred. Thomas declined to allow the newspaper to view the photos, but other defense attorneys associated with the case said they might soon make the pictures public, the Herald-Sun reported.


    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#57)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 01:10:42 PM EST
    TalkLeft posted:
    The accuser named her assailants as Matt, Adam and Bret. Adam may have been an alias for Dan. Why is Colin Finnerty's history relevant to anything?
    It has been established that at least one phony name was used to shield the player's identities at the party. The three accused of assault are not the only players that may be charged with a crime. Was the dancer introduced to the gentleman who said, "I'm gonna shove this up you," while holding a broomstick up in the air? The circumstances of Colin Finnerty's arrest on assault charges are not unrelated to the behavior of some of the partygoers as described by the accuser. From the News Observer article Lis Riba quoted :
    The man said he was minding his own business [at 2:30 a.m.] when the three men started picking on him. The man told them to stop "calling him gay and ... derogatory names." Then they* attacked him, he said, "busting his lip and bruising his chin," court records say.
    *"they" being Finnerty, and a Georgetown University lacrosse player, and a former lacrosse player for Providence College (both were Finnerty's teammates from high school lacrosse). The particulars of Finnerty's arrest, four months before the lacrosse party, is a closer match to what crimes may have been committed that night than the accuser's four year old prior criminal record is a match for falsely reporting a crime.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#58)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 01:21:28 PM EST
    TalkLeft, I believe that if DNA tests indicate the presence of semen, and that the semen does not match with any of the players, that both the DA and the complainant will lose their zeal for any prosecution, making the exceptions to the rape shield law moot.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 01:27:25 PM EST
    I don't know anything about Colin Finnerty, I haven't seen his name mentioned before. That's why I asked why he is relevant. The four year old crime report goes to her credibility for truthfulness, not due to the crime, but due to its disparities with the recent statement she gave to the Observer, saying she had only been an escort for two months and was doing it only to put herself through college and support her kids. Since college lasts four years, if she was doing lap dances in a strip club four years ago, it seems like she wasn't completely truthful with the reporter. Of course, if she's been a college student and mother all that time, and was merely discussing her employment with the current service, the argument would be weakened or eliminated.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#60)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 01:39:31 PM EST
    TalkLeft posted:
    I don't know anything about Colin Finnerty, I haven't seen his name mentioned before. That's why I asked why he is relevant.
    If you read the comment by Lis Riba that you were responding to, you would know that Colin Finnerty is a Duke University lacrosse player who was ordered to provide DNA samples in this rape investigation and that he was arrested five months ago for assaulting a man who claims Finnerty and two lacrosse playing buddies called him Gay and also degrogatory names before they assaulted him.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 02:09:24 PM EST
    Talkleft wrote: "The DNA will come out negative." Now there's a confident statement. If, by some fluke, the DNA does match some lacrosse player's or lacrosse players' DNA, will you then sign on the "it was consensual" band-wagon, or will you "lose your zeal" for their defense?

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 02:13:59 PM EST
    Jeruslagic, take a look at the rules of evidence. We're talking about impeachment of a witness to show lack of credibility not a charging a crime. The statement doesn't have to be under oath.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#63)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 02:28:00 PM EST
    TalkLeft posted
    Since college lasts four years, if she was doing lap dances in a strip club four years ago, it seems like she wasn't completely truthful with the reporter. Of course, if she's been a college student and mother all that time, and was merely discussing her employment with the current service, the argument would be weakened or eliminated.
    I would guess if you have two kids (both of her children are over four years old) and are working your way through school it most likely would take more than four years. That said, I don't think she would have to have been a mother (though she was) or a college student four years ago for the argument that she was unthruthful to the reporter to be eliminated. She is talking about the circumstances of the night in question. Her point was she had never danced at a private party for a group. Being an escort and dancing at a club are two different jobs. One difference between dancing at a club and dancing for an escort service is that at a club you are assured to have a bouncer present. She never said this is the only company she ever worked for and it could well be she had never worked as an escort until two months before that night. The details of her crime, as reported, do not refute that claim.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#64)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 03:21:59 PM EST
    It's nice to know that there are crime scene photos that can potentially be compared to the photos of the dancer that I assume would have been taken by the hospital rape test experts shortly after the police found her. These could help definitively determine whether at least some of her injuries occurred between the time of the dance and the time of her being picked up by the police. I suppose the defense has good reasons not to simply give those tapes to the D.A., none of which have anything to do with bringing this particular investigation to a just conclusion.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#65)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 03:53:42 PM EST
    Lawyer: Woman came to Duke party impaired
    Time-stamped photographs will show an exotic dancer was already injured and "very impaired" when she arrived at a party where she claims she was raped by members of Duke University's men's lacrosse team, an attorney for one of the players said Sunday.
    Thomas said some of the photographs, taken when she arrived at the house according to the time stamps, indicate the woman was injured before getting to the party. They show extensive bruises and scrapes on her legs, especially around the knees, he said.
    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#66)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 04:11:36 PM EST
    I assume the reason her jaw and neck injuries were not mentioned is that images of these taken at the party did not benefit the defense.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#67)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 05:02:57 PM EST
    New Newsweek article on Ryan McFadyen's e-mail:
    Two sources close to the team, who asked for anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said that the e-mail was a reference to a movie called "American Psycho." In the movie, which the sources described as a cult favorite that had been viewed by a number of players on the team, a Wall Street banker goes crazy and kills several women, though possibly only in his dreams. After seeing the e-mail, sent on McFadyen's e-mail account, one of the team members remarked, "I'll bring the Phil Collins music," the sources said. In "American Psycho," the killer delivers a tribute to the music of pop singer Collins as he cavorts with intended victims. The sources suggested that the e-mail was intended as an ironic joke. If so, that may say something about the humor of Duke lacrosse players. College students, and not just athletes, can be astonishingly raunchy and degraded in their recreational behavior. Interestingly, McFadyen was seen at a Take Back the Night rally held by Duke students protesting sexual violence and the alleged rape itself two weeks after the incident.
    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#68)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 06:18:22 PM EST
    nbc17.com (sorry had to disable the link to post)
    "Her face was all swollen up, her jaw. She couldn't half walk. One of her legs was hurt," he [father of the accuser] said.
    "There is no doubt in my mind, because I've seen the look in her face. I've seen the bruises on her face," the alleged victim's father said.
    charlotte.com (sorry had to disable the link to post)
    In the MSNBC interview, the father said his daughter's face was bruised and swollen so badly that she could barely open her eyes, she was scratched and her leg was injured so badly she couldn't get out of the car.
    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#69)
    by Lora on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 07:55:23 PM EST
    Things just don't add up. TL, you are so certain that the boys will be exonerated. Do you know something we don't know? OK, now it seems that there is speculation that the dancer was injured before arriving at the party. This is new, yes? Now how likely is it, that a woman would be badly injured, consistent with a rape, and attempt to go to another place, take the money, dance a few minutes, get some of the money taken back, and then go and cry rape, not accusing the person who injured her so severely, but accuse members of a Duke University LaCrosse team who she knows will stick together with their story, and without foolproof evidence she would have no chance of winning? It makes absolutely no sense.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#70)
    by inmyhumbleopinion on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 08:23:14 PM EST
    ABC video - Alleged Lacrosse Rape Stains Duke Tyler Infinger - Duke University Student:
    The only four people that I know on the lacrosse team are four of the best, strongest Christians. Most like - least likely people you'd ever see affiliated with something like this.
    Kerry Sutton - attorney for team co-captain Matt Zash:
    They have cooperated fully. They have done everything that they've been asked to do - that they categorically deny the allegations. Nothing happened.
    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#71)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 09:23:25 PM EST
    Fox News tonight claimed that according to the one attorney new photographs document that the dancer had bruises on her legs AND FACE and cuts on her feet when she arrived at the party.

    Re: Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Crimin (none / 0) (#72)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 10:01:09 PM EST
    A new thread with the latest case news and place to comment is here. Comments are now closed here, thanks for all your input.

    Accuser in Duke Lacrosse Case Has Prior Criminal Record | 72 comments (72 topical)