Michelle Malkin hammered out a quick post entitled "Al Gore Slanders America" in which she linked to a bunch of other right-wing bloggers who said pretty much the same thing. Scott of Powerline accused Gore of "defame[ing] his country before a foreign audience for fun and profit." Captain Ed at Captain's Quarters asked : "We held mass roundups of Arabs? When? Where?" And my personal favorite was a post at RealClearPolitics [Tom Bevan] which framed the issue this way: "Now ask yourself: between the asinine comments of Gore and Coulter, who's done more harm to the cause of the United States?" RCP's answer: clearly Al Gore (For those of you who've been under a rock for the last week, Ann Coulter--while speaking at the recent Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC)--commented "I think our motto should be post-9-11, 'raghead talks tough, raghead faces consequences'").

Non right-wing commentators are oh-so-politically-correct and aren't too eager to go on the record and risk getting slammed. That's why they don't write too much, thus they can't be cited. Hard to believe that many left wing commentators would privately agree with McCann--or would they???

"that's what can happen when you don't keep your nose clean."

Setting aside the fact that three young men stand accused of a crime that could cost them the better part of their lives behind bars,

I work on computer operating systems and, believe me, this is a top subject of discussion at my company right now. The consensus right now is that the time and expertise involved to change all of these time stamps in place, with no trace of the change, would be difficult and time consuming for us, and we understand how to do this. A utility program would be needed for the specific camera, and I doubt that this type of utility has been developed for every potential camera's format. Our security experts are also doubtful concerning the time and effort to do this. If there was more than one camera, the difficulty of this would multiply.

To suggest that the defense has manipulated that evidence -- without a trace -- is a virtual impossibility. (See details on previous thread: Post by 7duke4 May 31, 2006 09:58 PM)

"No trace" is a pretty high standard for changing data undetected.

To suggest that the defense has manipulated that evidence -- without a trace -- is a virtual impossibility.

The lacrosse team is basically a fraternity. 1/3 of the students of Duke are in fraternities and sororities. I come from the same background and joined a fraternity. First rule of a fraternity, watch your brothers' backs at all costs. You never tell your parents, girlfriend, or anyone what goes on in the house. The response of the players in the initial letter from the Captains and Dave Evans' staged press conference with his 'brothers from other mothers' standing up for him show behavior consistent with a conspiracy to hide the truth.

Posted by Lora May 31, 2006 10:19 AM GSD, Thanks for the clarification of the search warrant vs. Bissey etc. I'll just compare the search warrant and Shelton's report: From the search warrant: As the two women got into a vehicle they were approached by one of the suspects. He appologized and requested they go back inside and continue to dance. Shortly after going back into the dwelling the two women were separated... From Shelton's write-up: She said that they left and got into "Nikki's" car. At that time, she said that someone from the party wanted them to come back into the house. She said that "Nikki" wanted to go back inside, but that she did not. She said that she and "Nikki" got into an arguement about going back inside. She said at that point some of the guys from the party pulled her from the vehicle and groped her. She told me that no one forced her to have sex. She then mentioned that someone had taken her money. I guess I was leaning towards the possibility that the AV being pulled from the car and groped was a lead-up to the alleged rape/assaut. Now that I'm rereading both, they sound like two separate events. I still don't think the one precludes the other. If Kim was ready to return, thinking perhaps she could handle the crowd and perhaps get more tips, and the AV was reluctant, some of the partyers could have pulled the AV out of the car, not necessarily kicking and screaming. She was reluctant, but if Kim got out and went toward the house, she may have figured better to go where Kim goes rather than be left alone. Getting groped could have happened on the way to the house, as could the alleged robbery. If Kim is already at or in the house, what's she gonna do, try and go back to the car? She appears much less assertive than Kim and therefore would be much less likely to raise a fuss. If she was afraid, better to try to stick with Kim, who was not.

Has anybody publicly claimed that the three defendants were not in the bathroom with the accused that evening?

Former FBI digital photo expert said if the average person altered the time stamps or sequence of the photos on a copy or even the original chip or disk from the camera, experts could detect it, but if someone knew what they were doing, they could change the time stamps and/or sequence of the photos without experts being able to detect the alterations.

INHO, this could well explain why he's a former FBI photo expert, he's not able to tell the difference. true, you could use an application, such as adobe photo shop, to change the date/time stamp originally overlayed by the camera, and it would be nearly instantly detectable, to the naked eye of even a non-photo expert, much less a self-proclaimed former FBI photo expert.

If, in fact, there has been a cover-up by the lax players, wouldn't it seem likely that now is the time for it to break down?

The idea that none of the other 44 players has a conscience, a moral center, a sense of right and wrong, seems statistically and anecdotally improbable to me.

Are there any photos between 12:03 & 12:30? If they were altering timestamps, why leave a 27 minute gap?

You're also a Frat boy from a wealthy family and say that the "Lacrosse team is basically a fraternity". So, we can all can infer from your reasoning, that if a brutal gang rape occured at your frat house while you were there, you would have lied about it to the Police, family, freinds, etc... Nothing would have compelled you to do the right thing.

The idea that none of the other 44 players has a conscience, a moral center, a sense of right and wrong, seems statistically and anecdotally improbable to me.

Supposing they'd get a conviction under any circumstances, "the better part of their lives" would be highly unlikely, buddy.

Heh, I always find conservative preference-victimization hilarious: "this isn't about race, except how it's about race". Because its only important when its white men, otherwise it is political correctness.

Soper is old slang for soperific drugs.

[that'll be a "laugher" saved for his future wedding toast]

If I were aware of any crime they committed, I wouldn't say a thing.

The idea that none of the other 44 players has a conscience, a moral center, a sense of right and wrong, seems statistically and anecdotally improbable to me.

beenaround: I've posted twice before exactly how easy it is to change the metadata tags on pictures from digital cameras or camera phones using software that comes with every color printer sold. There's no reason why manufacturers care how easy it is to change this data.

Of course, the picture is different for real cameras with removable flash devices, because they tend to use the good old DOS FAT file system.

Former FBI digital photo expert ("Jerry Richards is a retired chief of the FBI's special photographic unit.") said if the average person altered the time stamps or sequence of the photos on a copy or even the original chip or disk from the camera, experts could detect it, but if someone knew what they were doing, they could change the time stamps and/or sequence of the photos without experts being able to detect the alteration.

It's a simple matter to make the original timestamp data unrecoverable. You just press erase and then fill the memory with other data.

A utility program would be needed for the specific camera, and I doubt that this type of utility has been developed for every potential camera's format.

Try Adobe Photoshop Home Edition 3.0. Works great for changing timestamps.

the reason is simple: all those apps leave a trail, and regardless of how good you are, the make-over is never going to be 100% compatible with the original. all you need do is compare a date/time stamped photo, known to have been taken by that camera, and compare the two. the difference will become strikingly obvious.

Posted by Bob In Pacifica: Regarding the defense team intentionally changing times on photos and thus risking going to jail for falsifying evidence...

The result of all this is that these devices leave the old blocks behind when files or metadata (ie, timestamps, names of files, etc) are modified. They are typically not erased until you have cycled through all the memory. This old data can be recovered and the sequence of operations can be reconstructed. It all depends on when you get your hands on the phone and the level of sophistication of the person making the modifications.

While you are correct that the DOS FAT filesystem does not do wear leveling, the writes to a 'physical block' are actually remapped by the removable flash device itself, to perform it's own wear leveling.

It appears that some posters here do not have a very good grasp on how electronic data is "stored" in "memory," let alone how that data is "written" or "erased." It is not as simple as saying "this is box 4B, is there a "1" or a "0" in it?" as 7duke4 patiently explained last night, and as I carefully explained -- in part -- early this morning.

IMHO: We already went over this. Theoretically, "if" someone really knew what they were doing well enough to fool an electron microscope analysis, then yes, this is probably an accurate statement.

The bottom line is an expert with better creditials than anyone that has posted here, so far, says it can be done without being detected.

The bottom line is an expert with better creditials than anyone that has posted here, so far, says it can be done without being detected. I think the defense has compromised the validity of their "photographic evidence" by not handing it over to the investigators.

IMHO wrote: [that'll be a "laugher" saved for his future wedding toast]

You have no clue what you are talking about and are so off-base with stereotypes and assumptions like this.

I have not read one comment on this blog that stereotypes the AV/FA's family or community. Only yours about the ARs'. Why do you feel the need to do so?

The bottom line is an expert with better creditials than anyone that has posted here, so far, says it can be done without being detected. I think the defense has compromised the validity of their "photographic evidence" by not handing it over to the investigators.

However, I imagine the defense has a chain of custody on the phone and its contents. Remember, it was mid-April (the 18th?) before the photos were released to the press. Their existance was widely reported for a couple of weeks before. I think the defense attorneys already had the camera (phone) examined by their own experts long before they released its contents.

They could have had an expert alter the data, THEN have another expert (oblivious to the first expert's tampering) verify the validity of the time stamps and sequence of the photos.

Just more satire, Kali. You enjoyed the last one so much.

Yup, they could, but the prosecutor gets to refute the evidence as worthless. Each side gets to present its opinion of the validity of the timestamps

The bottom line is an expert with better creditials than anyone that has posted here, so far, says it can be done without being detected. I think the defense has compromised the validity of their "photographic evidence" by not handing it over to the investigators.

I believe they reviewed the photos and got rid of the ones that would hurt their defense which explains why there is not any photo of dancers between 12:03-12:30.

Yup, they could, but the prosecutor gets to refute the evidence as worthless. Each side gets to present its opinion of the validity of the timestamps

Photos or time stamps don't conflict with her story. I don't think the photos were altered even though defense had enough time and resources to find an expert if theoretically it can be done. I believe they reviewed the photos and got rid of the ones that would hurt their defense which explains why there is not any photo of dancers between 12:03-12:30. That is one of the many oddities of the night that makes the AV's story more believable.

If they introduce the camera (phone) itself, they cannot disregard pictures that help the prosecution. He will have access to the phone and can use any evidence he finds on it

Hmmm, who was this expert, and why do you think that those of us who work on code in devices that do this sort of thing (writing to flash and so forth) are less expert at this than some guy who worked in the FBI or wherever and has most likely never worked on a product and so knows nothing about how they actually work at a deep level and how they can be compromised?

IMHO posted: The bottom line is an expert with better creditials than anyone that has posted here, so far, says it can be done without being detected.

There are experts here with better technical knowledge than I have. When you "erase" a file, you do not delete ALL of the information. You only modify the beginning of the file so that the device doesn't recognize it as a file. The majority of the information is still there. In old DOS, there was an UNDELETE command. It would troll for such files and you could select which one you wanted to restore. It would rewrite the beginning of the file so the device could "find" it again. Flash memory is much more sophisticated, but the procedure is similar. Just "erasing" doesn't really "erase."

An expert can look at the code and, in many cases, restore it.

However, I think it foolhardy to assert that defense attorneys can manipulate the evidence and not risk disbarment.

I think the reason he hasn't seized these devices yet is because he doesn't believe there has been any tampering and he would rather try to vaguely discredit the time stamps with an "anything is possible" kind of expert analysis rather than actually try to see if any real tampering occurred.

If Nifong can show deletions, particularly if he can show deletions during the relevant time window, that is highly probative evidence.

If Nifong can show deletions, particularly if he can show deletions during the relevant time window, that is highly probative evidence.

Of what?

If you were Nifong, why wouldn't you be examining those devices to (a) see if there is evidence of deletions during that time period and (b) to see if those images could be restored

Yes, they are restorable. It is information that has been stored digiatally. Just because you don't have a restore command or button doesn't mean it can't be done. An expert can look at the code and, in many cases, restore it. The FBI has become adept at restoring deleted computer files.

I am still amazed that although the AV identified Seligman and Finnerty, back on April 4th, that he did not have their dorm room searched until two weeks later, after they were indicted.

Whitworth, Jonathan Pollard, Ronald Pelton, and Rick Ames, as well as the O.J. Simpson civil case, and the John F. Kennedy/Marilyn Monroe forgery case. Richards owns Richards' Forensic Services in Laurel, Md., which examines questioned documents and photographs. He is available for consultation and expert witness testimony.

I hope that I have raised my children well enough that neither of them would even THINK about not coming forward if they knew something about a brutal rape. The moral turpitude such an attitude would represent would be shocking, not to mention stupid beyond belief. As if I, or any other parent of an innocent player would allow him to protect the kind of monster who could do what the AV says was done.

1. Significant Distinction: I made fun at a hypothetical, non-existent player's California mom to illustrate the absurdity of your stereotypes. You made fun (and continue to make fun) at the ARs's actual mother and family.

2. Stay on point. The issue was about stereotyping the ARs family, not the comments by players (your tactic of deflection).

So, I ask again, given that no one else on this blog stereotypes or satires the AV/FA's family (and if they did I'm sure you or others would be apoplectic), why do you feel it is justified to do so to the ARs family?

Not fighting, just curious why.

I do think some of your comments are very funny, but I wonder if the more poignant ones are indicative of your true perspective.

Posted by cpinva: Jerry Richards is a retired chief of the FBI's special photographic unit. During his 20 year career with the FBI he specialized in ............ none of which involved the use of digital cameras, which use an entirely different technology for both taking pictures, and date/time stamping them. i'm waiting to be impressed.

You realize that all these slow actions of investigators helped accused, not accuser.

Has anybody publicly claimed that the three defendants were not in the bathroom with the accused that evening?

PB, you have it backwards, the accused need prove nothing, it is the burden of the state to prove the substance of any allegations.

you seem to do that a lot.

I agree that the earlier the investigators investigate, the better their chances for determining the truth, I'm don't have nearly the hubris required to imagine that the truth couldn't as likely benefit the players as the accuser.

I haven't seen you ask wumhenry or Bob in Pacifica to justify the repugnant things they have said about strippers/escorts/hookers and more specifically about the accuser and Kim.

I have noticed a kinder, gentler Kali has been posting here, I'll try to follow suit.

You've admitted your bias and have shared the reason for your perspective. I respect that. I'm not comfortable sharing the reason for my perspective. I hope you can respect that.

It's a simple matter to make the original timestamp data unrecoverable. You just press erase and then fill the memory with other data. This may well have happened already to the best of the photos.

PB: In a word, "no."

If a crime occured it is possible they might have missed some of the evidence by being late. If a crime didn't occur there wouldn't be any evidence to miss anyways.

How about someone who is worrying about alteration of the timestamps propose a theory as to how manipulating the time would help the defense.

Racism is a vicious circle. Any response to a claim of racism in and of itself is going to be viewed as a reverse racism.

We know where the starting point of racism is in the US. Where is the ending point? How do we stop it as a society? Or do we just keep complaining about it and say things like, "they got what they asked for....even if she is lying".

This comment is not racial progress, but digression. No one who truly wants racial progress should stand behind this comment. I view this comment as derogatory to the black community, as in: if you sleep with a dog, you'll get fleas type attitude. If we, as a society want progress, all sides need to condemn wrongful statements and acts, and stop being self serving and selective with criticism at a political and racial levels.

JERRY RICHARDS, RET. CHIEF OF FBI'S SPECIAL PHOTOGRAPHIC UNIT: Well first of all, they would have to get the original disk or chip. If they're getting copies of it, it may not be possible to tell. And in some cases you would need some sophisticated software to make that determination. If the alterations were done well it would be very difficult if not impossible to tell.

ABRAMS: All right. So, if the--let's assume for a minute that you have the original, all right. Let's assume you were able--can you authenticate that it's an original disk or chip?

RICHARDS: I'd say in most cases yes.

ABRAMS: OK.

RICHARDS: Not in all.

ABRAMS: Let's assume--all right--let's assume for a minute then that you can authenticate that it's the original disk or chip. Can you then, once you have that in your hand, if you were given that, would you be able to tell if someone had moved the order of the photos?

RICHARDS: In all probability, yes. Now when I said original chip, when we get--talk about it, you may not be able to tell that that is the chip that the image was originally put on if it is an exact copy. But if they have been manipulated or changed around and the people who did that were not fairly sophisticated you should be able to tell, yes.

ABRAMS: And if they were sophisticated?

RICHARDS: You may not be able to. If the software that they are using has the ability to go into it right down to the machine code language, bits and bytes, so to speak and they knew exactly what they were doing, they possibly could manipulate it so you couldn't really make that determination.

ABRAMS: What about with regard to time codes? I mean of course anyone can set their camera or their cell phone to say a particular time. What about changing the time code, again, from that original disk? Same rules apply as you just laid them out?

RICHARDS: Yes, basically. If they have access to the metadata and have the software to manipulate the metadata, they can change that.

ABRAMS: So--just so we understand, you're saying possible, hard to do, likely you would be able to tell, likely an expert would be able to tell but not 100 percent certain.

RICHARDS: Yes, if the average person does it you're probably going to be able to tell. If it is an expert who's doing it, somebody who really understands the process and understands the system that it was done on--remember many of these systems are different...

ABRAMS: Right.

RICHARDS: ... then they--then it might be able--they may be able to...

ABRAMS: All right.

RICHARDS: ... do it to the point where we can't tell.

And, my goodness that boy must have awfully dry skin, considering how much lotion he goes through.

PB: Are you claiming that you can recover photographs even after the specific location where the information has been stored has been over-written, or are you simply pointing out that each time information is sent to memory it may be laid down in a different location. If the former, I'd like to see an example of that type of work.

You've written a few times that Bissey indicates the women could have returned as early as 11:55. Where have you seen that reported? What I've seen is that they returned between 12:15 and 12:20.

I noticed a car drive up and two young women get out, met with the gentleman and then walked back to the back of the house. Two young women, one of them dressed in a short skirt and high heels, and the other woman was dressed a little more conservatively spoke with the gentleman outside of this door here briefly, and then at this point, all of the young men were inside. They spoke amongst themselves for about five minutes or so and then entered the house.

11:50 p.m.: Bissey, on his porch, notices two women walk to the back of the house, where a man greets them.

Midnight:

Bissey sees the two women go into the house.

Yet trying to determine the integrity of a photo may be missing the point, says Gerald Richards, a retired chief of the FBI's Special Photographic Unit. "Since the advent of photography, we have never been able to say a photograph is genuine," he says. "The only thing you can say with certainty is that it is not genuine." "What makes it reliable," he says, "is the photographer who comes in and raises his hand and says, 'Yes, I took this picture and it is a true and accurate representation.' "

Yes, the former is also possible even though the file is overwritten with new data -- even completely overwritten, several times.

So, no matter how many experts testify as to how you can't tamper with the data w/o detection, there will be just as many who say you can, and it'll be up to the jury to decide who to believe. My guess is, once a jury is subjected to hours of stuff like "wear" and "data blocks" and "leveling," etc., there eyes will glaze over and they'll revert to whatever believe they had when they arrived that day.

But that "if" as described by Richards -- I don't know if you comprehend the enormity of the "if" -- is almost beyond comprehension.

If the alterations were done well it would be very difficult if not impossible to tell.

Jerry Richards:

If the alterations were done well it would be very difficult if not impossible to tell.

I took this to mean if someone altered the data it may be impossible to determine they did, therefore it can not be stated, positively, that the data has not been altered.

RICHARDS: You may not be able to. If the software that they are using has the ability to go into it right down to the machine code language, bits and bytes, so to speak and they knew exactly what they were doing, they possibly could manipulate it so you couldn't really make that determination.

There is also a 35-pass random overwrite that is considered about an FBI level overwrite for things like highly sensitive trade secrets.

Jerry Richards: If the alterations were done well it would be very difficult if not impossible to tell.

I took this to mean if someone altered the data it may be impossible to determine they did, therefore it can not be stated, positively, that the data has not been altered.

If the date was altered perfectly, yes, impossible to detect. Altering perfectly with no trace, exceedingly difficult.

Thank you, I rest my case. See my following post I wrote for PB describing the 35-pass random overwrite that is standard with my Mac OS X operating system.

That just isn't true. It can be, if nobody really defines what racism is and the cause of the particular brand of racism or if the person is being deliberately difficult, but it is not a default case.

So, he hates it but he participates in it.

Hence my mention of conservative preference-victimization. Does he really hate it, or does he just hate it when he doesn't benefit from it.

We can start by wording comprehensively and critically thinking first the situation we are criticizing and then our own criticisms instead of engaging in reactionary stone-throwing. Somebody has to break the cycle, but it sure isn't going to start by saying, "well, everybody else in school is doing it".

As for the "brought it on themselves" argument, if he is referring to the ramifications of rape accusations if they are false accusations, h*ll yes I disagree. [...] If he means - or just in general as this is how I feel - the reaction, criticism, and chastising they get because of their non-accordance-to-school-rules behavior, non-parent friendly behavior, their disregard for their neighbors, their racist and sexist and demeaning comments, their devaluing of the women/woman because she is "just a stripper"? Yes, that is aaaall them.

Your Honor, I ask that 7duke4 be qualified as an expert ....

imho: even Abrams has "hard breaks" when the show will go to commercial, whether someone is talking or not. I don't think that Abrams was all that unhappy with what the FBI guy had to say. Didn't seem that way to me.

ABRAMS: Before we get to the taxi driver, let me bring in Jerry Richards, because former FBI guy, that's what he did for a living. Jerry, explain this to me, all right. I know that you can manipulate this stuff, but I've also been told by experts that if you start moving photos around, taking them out of order, for example, any expert will be able to tell that that happened once they get the digital disk or chip that held the photos.

JERRY RICHARDS, RET. CHIEF OF FBI'S SPECIAL PHOTOGRAPHIC UNIT: Well first of all, they would have to get the original disk or chip. If they're getting copies of it, it may not be possible to tell. And in some cases you would need some sophisticated software to make that determination. If the alterations were done well it would be very difficult if not impossible to tell.

ABRAMS: All right. So, if the--let's assume for a minute that you have the original, all right. Let's assume you were able--can you authenticate that it's an original disk or chip?

RICHARDS: I'd say in most cases yes.

ABRAMS: OK.

RICHARDS: Not in all.

More than once, posters have cited Bissey for the proposition that that dancers "returned" a little before twelve. His comments thus far only say that he saw them at that time. That was the first time he saw them, yes, so he does not know if they were "returning" or "arriving." So far there is nothing that I know of, nothing reliable, that says the 11:50 or thereabout, was not the arrival at the back of the house time. It may be the return time, I agree, but we just don't know yet, do we?

From previous posts, I think that even IMHO believes this to be the likeliest timeframe.

(as I would have done to, oh my gosh, my lacrosse playing ATTACKman)

even IMHO? What's up with that? Is SLOphoto passing out torches to the villagers again?

If Kim waited in her car and the accuser hopped out of Brians' car and into Kim's upon arrival to discuss their dance, then Bissey saw the women get out of Kim's car and walk up the driveway, where is the guy that flagged down Brian Taylor's car? Bissey didn't mention seeing this guy down by Kim's car. This seems to support Bissey not seeing the accuser's first arrival.

Brian remains one of those incidental, but interesting, characters. He's not the boyfriend, right? Or do we know that yet? He's not one of the three non-lacrosse guys asked to donate, right? Or do we know that?

Surely, IMHO, you're not unaware of your persona on this board!

This seems to support Bissey not seeing the accuser's first arrival.

If we count the "threshold arrivals" that Bissey witnessed - one at 11:50 and one between 12:15 and 12:20, are suggesting that there may have been a third, or even a fourth that he didn't see?

She was wearing a see-through red outfit with no undergarments and one white high-heel shoe.

As far as the timing of two women's arrivals, I guess Kim will be able to set us all straight, but: the accuser getting there at 11:50, talking just fine, according to Kim, walking just fine, according to Bissey, and going inside at 11:55, then 5 minutes later, she's face down in the carpet? When did she quaff the drink and a half? 11:56-11:59? One minute later she's blotto?

She was wearing a see-through red outfit with no undergarments and one white high-heel shoe.

Wha-aa?? Ok, she's a stripper, I know, but don't you have 'em on in the first place so you can take them off?

If they are innocent, as opposed to not guilty, and they have to go all the way to and through trial, even if acquitted, the accused will have been made to bear an awful burden.

...then 5 minutes later, she's face down in the carpet? When did she quaff the drink and a half? 11:56-11:59? One minute later she's blotto?

imho,

Maybe the AV stumbled and fell when her shoe came off?

12:00:12 a.m. The first picture of the dancers. The accuser, wearing pink and white lace lingerie, is lying face down on the floor.

12:00:21 a.m. The accuser and the second dancer are dancing together.[dancing standing up with one shoe on or "performing" on her bloody knees? Could mean nothing, but this is the only time they are described as "dancing" the "Floor routine" is described as "performing."]

12:00:29 a.m. Dancers are performing. The accuser has what looks like bruising on her knees. Her right shoe is missing from her foot. It can be seen in the background.[Standing up performing with one shoe or on her knees?]

12:00:40 a.m. The two dancers are performing. A crowd of about 15 men is visible in the photo. The men are sitting on couches. They are not showing much reaction.

12:02:16 a.m. The accuser is on top of the second dancer. The accuser's right thumbnail does not have a fingernail or polish on it. Her right pinky nail also does not have a nail. The men are smiling. The dancers are smiling.[hmmm? Everyone is smiling? And fun was had by all until the broom remark?]

ABRAMS: The district attorney has suggested the accuser struggled with the attackers, so much so that her artificial fingernails broke off, so why was none their DNA found under her fingernails?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE [Nifong]: Evidence that she would present with respect to that particular situation is that she was grabbed from behind. Now, as you can see from my arm, if I were wearing a shirt, a long sleeve shirt or a jacket of some sort, even if there were enough force used to press down to break my skin through the clothing, there might not be any way that anything from my arm could get on to those fingernails.

ABRAMS: The problem. Reade Seligmann and just about every other young man at the party is seen wearing a short-sleeve shirt.

ABRAMS: And yet, now it seems at least I can tell you from looking at those pictures, while there were one or two people wearing long-sleeved t-shirts, all the rest of the people in that house were wearing short-sleeved shirts.

I asked my internet experts what "AFAIK" meant. Other than possibly an armed militia in the northern region of Iraq, no one has a guess.

After arresting Wilson, police searched the 2002 Lincoln that he was driving and discovered "less than one half ounce" of marijuana and a glass pipe, according to Jane Cousins of the Chapel Hill Police Department.

In all, police charged Wilson with driving while impaired, possession of marijuana, running a red light and possession of drug paraphernalia. He was released on a written promise to appear in court on Aug. 1.

It's been like a grieving process," Zash said. "It was difficult to even think about watching lacrosse. I didn't watch any of the rest of the season. I don't think many of us did. We knew it could have been us out there, living out our dream. Instead, it was taken away from us without warning."

University officials have yet to announce whether the team will resume play in 2007. But if Duke does return to action next season, the team will include highly touted high school player Max Quinzani, who has reaffirmed his decision to attend Duke in the fall. That's good news for a program that has lost three incoming freshman recruits. Quinzani's mother, Julia, also takes it as a good indication that Duke plans to return to the lacrosse field next season. "We can't be sure until they make an announcement, but we feel they are [going to play]," Julia Quinzani said. "If they don't play that's OK, too, but we would prefer that they did."

Duke lacrosse player charged with a DWI

He was charged with possession of a malt beverage under the age of 21 and urinating in public in two separate incidents in Durham in 2004, but both of those charges also were dismissed.

"It was thrilling to be out there again, playing competitively," said Zash, the sixth overall pick in the draft.

Dowd and Flannery also were drafted.

"It's been like a grieving process," Zash said. "It was difficult to even think about watching lacrosse. I didn't watch any of the rest of the season. I don't think many of us did. We knew it could have been us out there, living out our dream. Instead, it was taken away from us without warning."

.... "I know this will blow over and they'll be found innocent," he said. "We're communicating frequently, and they're doing the best they can with it. They have unbelievable support because we all know it could have been any one of us who got picked in this lottery."

I asked my internet experts what "AFAIK" meant. Other than possibly an armed militia in the northern region of Iraq, no one has a guess.

For those that insist on a "Blue Wall of Silence" this should give you an idea of the strong motivation the players had to win a national championship, they would in no way sacrefice their title dreams for anyone and definitely not at their ages.

For all those out there that believe in the Blue Wall of silence and and the suggestion that people would keep quiet out of loyalty to their team, I did an informal survey at work today asking my female employees if they would report their child if they suspected them of committing a crime like rape. Everyone said absolutely YES. These individuals are all moms (25-55 years of age) and represent a good cross section of society. Hard to imagine that a mother would report her child but "team loyalty" would prevent the LAX players from squealing on each other.

Quite humorous, 7Duke4, but shame on you for directing us to a site with a name like "blueballfixed."

For all those out there that believe in the Blue Wall of silence and and the suggestion that people would keep quiet out of loyalty to their team, I did an informal survey at work today asking my female employees if they would report their child if they suspected them of committing a crime like rape. Everyone said absolutely YES. These individuals are all moms (25-55 years of age) and represent a good cross section of society. Hard to imagine that a mother would report her child but "team loyalty" would prevent the LAX players from squealing on each other.

One interesting, perhaps, memory from serving on that jury: one of the voir dire questions was "If the only evidence you have that the victim was raped, and that the defendant was her rapist, is her word, her identification, could you still convict him?" And we all said, "yes."

From Shelton's write-up, after he approaches the AV in Kim's car:

She was wearing a see-through red outfit with no undergarments and one white high-heel shoe.

Wha-aa?? Ok, she's a stripper, I know, but don't you have 'em on in the first place so you can take them off?

Any clothing relating to the suspect or the victim

Unlike a sexual assault by a stranger, in this case it's not possible to distinguish whether the AV is able to ID someone because they were at the party, or whether they were in the bathroom.

... I'd think if you are doing a strip tease, you wouldn't want to reveal all at once.

Actually I did ask a similar question and they all had the same response. They were concerned that our kids would do it again and something would need to be done to prevent that from happening.

IMHO, I believe your idea of team loyalty is not realistic. Faced with possible prison, the team players would quickly rat on each other. In fact, that is usally the rule and not the exception.

By the way. For those of you that have children, ask them if they would lie to help their best friends stay out of jail for a crime like rape.

PB, I agree. If the DA can place the guys in the bathroom at the same time, I would change my opinion about the possibility of a rape. But that is the big IF.

This is where the DNA comes into play. If there was ever going to be a case with DNA, this would seem to be such a case. The assertion of a 30 minute, violent struggle, with v*g*n*l and *n*l rape, without a condom, would certainly seem to produce a setting where DNA would be present - especially because of the short time period and the lack of bathing between the alleged incident and the SANE's examination.

Additionally, it was told sometime ago that a source in Durham police saying that a player was cooperating with prosecution.

Not saying that it isn't possible, but if Nifong has already "turned" one of the players, he should have had a report about it in the discovery papers.

We already know that someone tipped police about the email that is about skinning and killing the strippers. In some of the reports this person is mentioned as a team member. Since the email was sent to team members,it is very likely he was a team member.

Dave Evans came out publicly and stated he turned over his email accounts and his AIM account to the detectives. I imagine that they got the copy of McFadyen's email from Evan's account. I don't think they would have to "turn" any other player.

I think that is tied to the phony email that was sent to the players, purportedly from one of them, that is pretty much accepted as being an attempt by the cops to spook the players.

IMHO, Don't change the context of my statements. The question was from a parent's point of view. Obviously players would look at the situation from a different point of view but I still believe if they thought something terrible happened, they would rat.

A better question: Would you keep quiet if you knew* nothing happened but you knew** that a DA was determined to "find" a guilty party at all costs.

In any case, if I witnessed a brutal rape I would first report it to the police, friend or no friend.

I wonder how many of the 15 incidents from from the grand total were multiple cites to the same person.

The bathroom should have been full of the AV's saliva, tears, skin, etc.

The 3 AR's clothes should have the AV's DNA all over them

Do we know if the clothing they wore that night was collected? I didn't see any clothing listed as items seized. If thy did collect any clothing, do we know it had not been scrubbed clean first?

Rumor has it that Wilson is the son of Peter Wilson, a prof at Fuqua, Duke's business school. Yikes! I wonder what the administration will do to him.

The 3 AR's clothes should have the AV's DNA all over them

Ekstrand said the police gave him a list of the players they believe were not at the party at 11 p.m. Saturday.

"The list... was woefully incomplete," Ekstrand said. "They are running a serious risk right now if they put those names up and they don't know the answer to that question [of who was absent from the party]."

We already know that someone tipped police about the email that is about skinning and killing the strippers.

It was Evans when the police originally showed up and took his computer.

Any clothing relating to the suspect or the victim

I think that is tied to the phony email that was sent to the players, purportedly from one of them, that is pretty much accepted as being an attempt by the cops to spook the players. Not saying that it isn't possible, but if Nifong has already "turned" one of the players, he should have had a report about it in the discovery papers.

defense lawyers say they fear their clients are being targeted in a setup or sting operation possibly perpetrated by law enforcement.

The lawyers' unsubstantiated accusations came on a busy Good Friday in Durham, when it became known that Durham police investigators had attempted the night before to interview some players on campus about the case.

The "gentleman" who made the broomstick reference was identified by the AV, and as far as I know, there are no possible criminal charges for making such a comment, so even if the other players have not publicly named him, his identity has absolutely NOTHING to do with the charges against the Duke Three

Ekstrand said the police gave him a list of the players they believe were not at the party at 11 p.m. Saturday.

I happened to be in a hotel elevator in Philadelphia this weekend with a group of kids, teenagers really, carrying their lacrosse sticks. Not an uncommon sight anywhere in the city. A woman stepped into the car on the fifth floor and to get off at the third, obviously dressed for a stint at the fitness center. One of the boys made a remark about heading to the gym but not taking the two flights of stairs.

"I'm a woman by myself," she said tersely. "You think I'm going into a stairwell? Alone? In a hotel full of lacrosse players?"

Rumor has it that Wilson is the son of Peter Wilson, a prof at Fuqua, Duke's business school. Yikes! I wonder what the administration will do to him.

A member of the Duke University men's lacrosse team has been indefinitely suspended from the team after being charged with drug possession and driving while impaired.